An insightful conversation between Jerry and Scott about their personal spiritual experiences while recapping points from the most recent series, including dialogues, and responses from readers and listeners.
Read God: An Autobiography, As Told To A Philosopher.
Begin the dramatic adaptation of God: An Autobiography, As Told To A Philosopher
Related Episodes: [Two Philosophers Wrestle With God] Revelation [Part 1] [Part 2]; [What's On Your Mind] Seeing With Divine Eyes
Share Your Story | Site | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | YouTube |
Scott Langdon [00:00:17] This is God: An Autobiography, The Podcast. A dramatic adaptation and continuing discussion of the book God: An Autobiography, As Told To A Philosopher by Jerry L. Martin. He was a lifelong agnostic, but one day he had an occasion to pray. To his vast surprise, God answered- in words. Being a philosopher, he had a lot of questions, and God had a lot to tell him. Episode 89 Welcome to God: An Autobiography, The Podcast. Episode 64.
Scott Langdon [00:01:09] Hello and welcome to Episode 64 of God: An Autobiography, The Podcast. I'm your host, Scott Langdon. Here in episode 64, Jerry and I continue with our monthly episode offering, we're calling What's On Our Minds. Last week in episode 63, we shared listener comments and questions and Jerry's responses. This week, Jerry and I engage in our own questions and comments that have come to us as a result of the past three episodes. If you have a question, comment, or a story of your own about an encounter with God or a spiritual experience, drop us an email to email@example.com. Thanks for spending this time with us. I hope you enjoy the episode.
Scott Langdon [00:02:01] Here we are at episode 64, Jerry, and a second time around for What's On Our Minds, which I just think is a really nice addition to what we do last week, which was What's On Your Minds where we ask folks to email us with their questions or concerns at firstname.lastname@example.org. And we have some folks who write in to the website with comments and questions and talking about them, on last week's episode, just really made me feel like there's a lot more than seems to meet the eye at the surface of this whole project of God: An Autobiography. There's so much depth in it, and when people talk about it and ask their questions and then when you and I start to think about that and talk about other people's questions and so forth, it's just there's so much depth to plumb.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:02:52] That's for sure true, Scott. And a lot of what's on our mind is exactly the previous episodes, the discussions with Richard Oxenberg, where we're delving into these issues and thrashing them out, and then the very interesting experiences and thoughts that we receive in the mailbox.
Scott Langdon [00:03:13] Well, looking back on the last couple of episodes that we've had of the podcast, when I look back to episode 61, which is the second dialogue with Richard Oxenberg-- between Richard and you. In episode 61, right at the beginning, Richard dives in with a question on the authority of the voice.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:03:36] Yes.
Scott Langdon [00:03:37] And when-- one of the things, when we were making the podcast and adapting the scripts and I was going through the book and you and I were going back and forth with it, and I had questions about your process. And, you know, how did this happen? What was the-- how did it show up for you? You were very clear about the fact that this was a voice that's different than talking to yourself, that there was something otherly about it.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:04:03] Yes.
Scott Langdon [00:04:04] And it was a-- it's a distinctive sort of other voice, as if it's another entity. For those of us who may not have heard a voice like that, too, to say, "Hey, I'm another entity over here, pay attention to me." What was it like to feel this sense of otherness without having any, quote, unquote, other around?
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:04:30] Yeah. Well, of course, at first, God made it easy for me. It was a voice out there as far as I could tell. I look to see if Abigail heard it. I wouldn't have been at all surprised if she had been looking up, startled- what is that? It was that real as a surround voice at the same time that she didn't hear it, that didn't surprise me either. I thought, oh, it's a voice just for me. And after, often my experience is more often like a kind of inner ears. People say it's as if you have a little transplant. And some of the people written into us describe very much that experience of, maybe Doug, maybe Jenny, of just like having a little, you know, listening thing in your ear. And, I think we all, even apart from voices, can find in our experience different. You might say there may just be different levels of ourselves often. But I know when I'm going to make a decision, I tend to do, you know, a kind of plus and minus column, the pros and cons, two columns. At the end of which, I actually just check my gut. I use that to kind of clarify the elements of the situation. But the deciding point isn't up here in what I'm thinking through. It's, well, what is this other level of me say? And the great psychologist Carl Jung, who probed the spiritual depths of human nature, spoke of the higher self. Okay, a higher self, I even considered maybe this is my higher self speaking up. But I thought, well, why would my higher self say I am God.
Scott Langdon [00:06:27] Right, right.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:06:28] That would make sense. So all of that resolved itself that way. But I think when you listen and you'll see, I think people will hear these in the comments people are writing to us. They have the experience. They can tell the difference between their own inner thinking and something that wasn't put there by them. And as who was it who said the last time? The voice too strong to ignore or something like that.
Scott Langdon [00:06:59] Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:07:00] An insistent other voice that comes in, and the fact is, you can tell the difference. And I guess if you haven't had the experience, then you don't know quite what that would mean. You know, to be able to tell the difference. But I try to say, well, you can tell a little bit of difference just internally. And oh, your first thoughts and your second thoughts and your inner narrative and your metanarrative where you're kind of correcting, you know, the lots coming in to a person in their experience more maybe than we casually notice. And part of it is coming in, once you recognize it this way, from God. You might be getting input from God who does not know it's God and think it's your thoughts, and maybe that's fine it's leading you along well, and you don't have to conceptualize it one way rather than another, as long as you're kind of paying attention to the inputs that are most deep and authoritative.
Scott Langdon [00:08:00] One of the things that can be problematic for some folks and I know it is problematic for me, is a feeling called maybe to do something that feels like something you don't want to do.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:08:10] Yeah.
Scott Langdon [00:08:10] We talked, we talked yesterday, I think there was a section where you mentioned, you know, God don't-- I'm asking you to not ask me to do something wrong or, you know. Which is a legit question for anyone who's being asked to do something, you know, that's I don't want to do anything wrong. I don't need to do anything that would be hurtful. And once we get past that initialness from me, I no longer wonder about that. Would God ask me to do something ungodly? I know because I've gone through sort of this process that that is not going to happen. God, everything I know about my relationship with God when we were super close, when I was a kid versus all of this time, you know, the whole travels, what I know about God is that God will not ask me to do something wrong or evil.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:09:02] Right.
Scott Langdon [00:09:03] So once I know that, then I go back to myself and I go, well, is this something that you really want or is it something that you think you want? And this is where we talked in the book and we worked on the podcast, there was a time when you and God went back and forth about this is something that I, you know, I want. And God says, you think you want it, but maybe you really don't. I think it was actually when you were the Neil Donald Walsh.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:09:29] Neil Donald Walsh, because he says God will give you anything you want.
Scott Langdon [00:09:32] Anything you want.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:09:33] That's ridiculous. And then God says back- yeah. And I gave an example, you know, I can't remember what it was. Want to be a tennis champion or something? And God says, well, is that something you really want? And of course, it's not actually anything I want to do, nothing in my life to become a tennis champion. But yeah, God's, is that what you really want? Do you think you want? And that itself is a challenging question for a person to sort out. You know, sometimes you're doing something you think everybody wants and therefore I must want it, but it actually isn't what you want, you know? Yeah.
Scott Langdon [00:10:07] Yeah, just the discernment of that, the idea of desire that I would have. I have a desire to do something. And my desire and God's desire when they are the same desire, it seems it flows. It's yes. You know, there's this dance, if you will, God and I, you know, co-existing and working separately, but together at the same time, you can feel that. You feel it like Michael Jordan talked about being on the basketball court, being in a zone or, you know, you can you think about the zone. It's just it's not something that you do to get in there. It's just you sort of, my experience seems to be, when I just let that be, just relax and be into that and we can talk about it as God as the pilot, God as the copilot, however you want to talk about it. But to me it's more like a dance. And when I know that God and I are in sync, it just I know it. We feel it, we know it. And ultimately, when we discern, is this something God wants me to do or something that I want to do or God-- there is a knowing, I think that lies just beyond that. Well, God told me to go kill somebody. Well, we already know that person's a nut because we know that God wouldn't do that. Do you get that sense as you move through with your prayers even still?
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:11:24] Yeah. I thought I wouldn't decide it as so wonderfully free floating. Because God can ask you to do things uncomfortable that are genuinely uncomfortable, and maybe ideally get yourself lined up enough with God it becomes not so uncomfortable. You know what you're describing, Scott, might be a kind of endpoint of the relation with the Divine. But I didn't want to write this book. I prayed- can I publish anonymously? You know, in my world, both academic and Washington, D.C., these are tough, tough venues. And they're not religious, they're not spiritual. And people think you think you're talking to God, that sounds kind of nuts. This was going to be the end of a career and just kind of social embarrassment. So I did not want to write the book. If I was going to have to write it, I wanted to do it anonymously. And God said, no, you stand with it. And, you know, we've talked about this God, I'm a deep introvert. You know, doing these podcasts makes me, you know, might say, come out of my comfort zone. I'm not normally someone who on my own would have been doing a podcast. A lot of people are. Many people have a personal podcast, but I'm not one of those people. I'm an introvert. I'm more likely to be off in the corner reading a book or making some notes about whatever I'm thinking about. But we're often called outside our comfort zone also, and I guess what I've gone through in prayer. I talked about at some point about making a pros and cons list and then trying... but I find if I really, really want a certain outcome, there's something I don't want to do, I have to first overcome that unwillingness before I can even pray well. If I'm going to get in tune with God, I have to start off. I really, really, really don't want to do this, but I've got to set that aside. If this is what you want me to do, I will do it. I have to not just say it, but completely get into that thy will be done mode and then I can pray and get clear guidance. Otherwise, there's static on the line. But I can get clear guidance if I just become completely willing to do what God wants. And I guess that's part of achieving the kind of harmony you're talking about, Scott. Where it becomes then at that point more like dancing together and you're making moves and concert and coherence with one another.
Scott Langdon [00:14:06] One of the difficulties that I live with is a racing thoughts from time to time. My mind is very active and one of the things that's brought me more peace, especially during the course of working on this project and learning the things that I've learned by working on this project with you is the idea of quieting the mind.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:14:26] Yes.
Scott Langdon [00:14:27] I really have been so comforted by some of the Eastern traditions that I would not have looked at in the way I have done, if not for this work. So I'm extremely grateful for that. But the idea of a meditation of the breath, what the breath is, I heard a beautiful definition, I guess, if you could call it of God from someone in that tradition, in the Buddhist tradition, who called God "the breath within the breath." And when everything that happens with me is fueled by that breath beyond the breath, there's that sameness that I feel, the connectedness that I feel with God, while at the same time understanding that, you know, my thinking mind, my egoic mind can really get to racing and making up a bunch of stories about what I need and need not do. But there is that place that is beyond that, in the quietness of the mind where God seems to be either I don't know if God works from that place particular, or if God is just saying to me- the grace that I'm giving you is just the realization that remembering of the access to this, now go back out into-- You know, it's never like I'm going to live in this Nirvana forever.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:15:45] Right.
Scott Langdon [00:15:45] Remember that it's here. This is where you are. This is us together. This is us quiet. Now let's go into the world, you know. And we dance that way.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:15:56] Because they're both essential elements. So there's work to be done in the world. I'm told God has essential work. God needs partners. My wife Abigail says God can't mail a letter. So if He needs a letter mailed, we'd better go do it. But there is that internal place of peace that sustains us. And, you know, there's that episode that's, I think, called something like where God takes me to a place of peace.
Scott Langdon [00:16:24] Yeah.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:16:24] That was where I was told something like, come into the heart of Me. I thought, whoa, this sounds like out-of-body travel or something?
Scott Langdon [00:16:33] Yeah.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:16:33] Sounds scary to me, you know? But I always, when I would get instructions didn't know what that meant, really, I would just kind of try it out. Let's see if I can kind of get into this. And it was as if I was drawn into the eye of a hurricane. It was very much like that here are the tremendous swirls, world events, and matter in motion, and energy and dynamism. And again at the center of this tremendous almost storm that the world is was a kind of totally calm like what T.S. Eliot, the poet, calls the still point of the turning world. You know, in a sense, the center of the swirl itself is at peace. And it was very much like that- that there is that to connect with also.
Scott Langdon [00:18:00] Going back for a moment to Episode 61, the second dialogue between Richard Oxenberg and you, this is part one of that second dialogue. Again, initially he talks and asks you about the authority of the voice and he asks you further about the process by which you wrote down. Did you take dictation and you right away say, "Yes, I took dications, that's exactly what happened.".
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:18:23] Yes.
Scott Langdon [00:18:24] That's distinctive from, you know, an idea coming to yourself. Now, what I started to wonder about and think about when I was listening to that episode is when I'm writing fiction, let's say me Scott Langdon is writing fiction. I don't know, and Richard touches on this, too, I don't know where the words come from.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:18:47] Yes.
Scott Langdon [00:18:47] They come from somewhere. But this-- the character that I'm creating and the scene in which I place them and the other characters, that story unfolds as I'm writing. Even if I have an idea, an outline, it's still–it unfolds as it's happening. And those words are quote unquote, my words, but I don't know how to explain it. But you do make a distinction between the words that kind of come to you in that way and these words where God is saying, Write this down. Write this down."
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:19:20] Yes. Yes. The first is a lot like inspiration. I assume a lot of scriptures of different traditions, the people were often poets, and they were more open to the divine signals. But I assume often they're working by something like inspiration, where they're divinely infused or energized, but they are actually doing it. What you're saying, Scott, reminds me of an interview with the poet who is asking, where does it, where did his poems come from? And he said, "Well, I don't know. I write some of them. I don't know who writes the others." Well, for all I know, God is writing the others we don't know. You know, because we have to remember, though, my experience was, here's Jerry Martin on a park bench and here's God speaking to Jerry Martin. I'm also told God is both same and other than us. God is distinct from us another that we can have a relationship. Which if we were just totally melded, we couldn't have. But at the same time, we're a kind of distinct part or manifestation of the divine. And so there's a way in which any inspiration I have, that you have, Scott, or this poet has, maybe that, you know, a particularly divine element of their own experience and existence and unfolding and becoming, and so those are just subtle distinctions that it's hard to know how to reason about. But there is still a difference. The distinction, the distinctiveness is just as important as the similarity. We are both in the same as God, but also in crucial ways, distinct and have to live our own lives and in our own lives have to make sure we're living in concert with God.
Scott Langdon [00:21:32] I think that this I'm really excited as we get further on into the book and further on into the dialogues with you and Richard, I'm really interested in this idea of same and other. It's been something that's been, not consuming me, but really taking up a lot of my time and interest in a good way, in a very imaginative way. And what I come to from time to time is the question of what is it that's not God. I mean, everything ultimately is born of God and is God. So there is a distinction that needs to be made, and yet there is no distinction. And I think that what I'm excited about getting to, is when you talk in the book about the arena of the world, of being in this world, in this life, the sort of rules of the game, if you will. If you're playing baseball, you know, it's not going to be on a football field with a green field.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:22:35] Right, you're on the diamond.
Scott Langdon [00:22:35] On a baseball field. Here's the boundaries, here's a fence and here's, you know, three strikes and you're out and all that. We all know the game we're playing, you know, so it's being in the world is where we experience same and other. And other is super important to experience when in a relationship with God. For a long time I rejected entirely the idea of God as a being somewhere else.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:23:01] Right.
Scott Langdon [00:23:02] And I still do, and I don't. Like what's come to me as peaceful is knowing that there is no separation between God and me. Not because of a promise, not because of, oh, he's faithful. No, because promises can be broken and people can be unfaithful. Beings aren't faithful from time to time. They are also great, faithful and wonderful. But you know, the idea that there would be another being. But in this arena of the world where there is black and white, in and out, back and forth, why wouldn't God participate in that arena as well?
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:23:35] Well, God does and that's where the other that comes in. And the other has its own value. It has the value not only of bringing the possibility of relationship, and the value that we can be partners with God and do work in the world. But being little physical entities on two legs are particularly easy for us, but not so natural for God. But also another aspect is that I know a lot of people just love, oh, everything is one, God is one, and we're all part of the one. Okay, that is wonderful. On the other hand, the other wonderful thing is that the multiplicity of the world. That there are many kinds of creatures here, there are many people and each one is unique. And we're all you know, we're all different, one from another. And we each bring different elements of value and disvalue to the world. A colleague of mine at NEH, she was talking about the people working there, they're all little packages of mixed blessings, she said. Well, that's not a bad description of what we are, but that diversity is part of the mosaic of the world. That's a wonderful thing. And it's not just human beings that's your cat and dog and all these other creatures with which nature abounds. Anytime I watch one of these nature programs and I find there are all kinds of little creatures and snuggly places that I didn't even know existed, you know? And well, that's wonderful too- biodiversity and so forth, not just as a slogan, but as these actual life forms, all the little creatures that have their own beauty and purpose and way of working with their environment, and they contribute and take away both. And so that diversity, the particularity of the world of beings in the world of people and other things, and aesthetic appreciation recognizes a lot of that. A lot of just recognizing the beauty of something is seeing its peculiar distinctiveness.
Scott Langdon [00:26:19] Thinking back on last week's episode, episode 63, we were talking about what's on your mind with some folks who had written in and Doug wrote in a comment. We talked about that a little bit. His comment to remind folks is this. He said, "Jerry, I love your writing style. This is so engaging and inspirational." And it's wonderful to have, you know, compliments like that. And we talked about, you know, you and God and God, you know, you asking God after you had done something well one time, and- is this okay to feel good? And God said, "Of course, that's part of the process," you know, of course. But my question then goes back to what Richard was asking you about the authority and that you were taking dictation. And it almost sounds like only taking dictation. But obviously it's more than only taking dictation because what eventually was produced was a writing style that was appealing to many who read it, including me, but certainly Doug. So Jerry's writing style versus God giving dictation? Or is it not versus is it all kind of woven into the same thing?
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:27:27] Well, I would-- I think I don't agree with the premise that Jerry's writing style in God's style are identical. In fact, I know one of my former colleagues at Boulder said when God talks, he doesn't know what on Earth God means, and not like what he called plain old Jerry Martin. You know, my writing is very simple and straightforward, and it's just this is what happens, folks. Whereas God kind of goes all over the place, uses vocabulary, a lot of it, of course, is mine. He is speaking 21st century American English.
Scott Langdon [00:28:08] Right.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:28:08] That's certainly true. And He's speaking includes a lot of my conversational style, even. And God, pulls in some philosophical terms. Well, that's because, I mean, I would do that talking to a philosopher and I wouldn't do it talking to someone else. I would use the lingo I thought was familiar to them. But anyway, I'm obviously the medium and I worry about this at one point. Well, how can this be God, if it sounds, you might say so much like me.
Scott Langdon [00:28:41] Right.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:28:41] You know, certainly the voice doesn't seem very distinct from my voice, inner voice. It's just I can tell the difference, that's all. It's not that it sounds all high pitched or low pitched or in an accent or something like that. But it's just different when God says things. I think as editor, oh, that could be better said. And there's a temptation to change it. But I didn't change a single word. Even when God makes a grammatical mistake, I don't change it because this is what God has to say, and if I start editing God, well, it's that's the Jerry Martin editing God, it's not the part of Jerry Martin that's divinely inspired. It's just Jerry. And where God seems to contradict Himself in some places in the book with very similar question. I leave both in because again, I'm not the overlord here, trying to decide which answer was the right one. Maybe they're both true in their context, I don't know. But that's not my job to figure that out. It's my job to report what God has told me. You might say, period.
Scott Langdon [00:29:55] Well, that's so interesting because I felt a very similar feeling when we were adapting the book to the scripts for the podcast, and I would look at the whole thing and I would just, what I do is I would just take the digital book and I would just copy and paste it into the script and then kind of work from there. But I always had that on my mind. Like, especially with the God voice, the God parts that you ended up speaking in the podcast. Always, first of all, Jerry's been through this. So if he wants to leave it in, it stays in, you know, Like, well, maybe there's an arc of the story or maybe God doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. Yeah, but Jerry left it in because God told him to leave it in. So you're going to leave it in here, you know? I mean, we just-- there's a lot of that, but there is that distinction, I think that's very interesting to make between, you know, is this me what I want to say versus what needs to be said. I guess?
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:30:53] Well, there is also just, you know, putting the book together. I just had scraps of notes all over.
Scott Langdon [00:30:59] Right.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:30:59] And I had to pull together a world where all the parts on Hinduism.You know, one section together, and I still tried to keep the chronology right of what I was told about Hinduism, because I'm told the later prayers sort of trump the earlier prayers.They're more accurate, in part because I knew more, I was more familiar with the process of talking with God. And the order of things in the book, I would have started with Jesus thinking most in a Christian culture, most of the readers are going to come from that background. But I received the distinct guidance. Start with the Chinese. Oh, okay. So the Chinese move way up early and I, you know, and again, I didn't, looking back, I don't think I was that wise or unwise whom you know-- that's not my call. It's s not my call. So that's itself a lesson in how you lived with God. Sometimes you just think- huh? You know, why do this? I wanted to do that, this other thing looked better by some criteria or other that were in my mind. Maybe the book would sell better with some other.
Scott Langdon [00:32:12] Right.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:32:13] You know, but no, this is not what we're about. We're about just carrying forth God's word. And then-- and I don't even try as I tell people, I'm not trying to talk you into something, take from it what you take from it. Assume that that's what God wants you to take from it. Why wouldn't it be?
Scott Langdon [00:32:31] Well, listeners and readers of the book who may have some experiences with God in their lives or maybe an experience that they're not really understanding or maybe afraid to look at or something. One of the setbacks might be to think about oneself as well. I'm not-- God is not going to want me to write a book. God's not wanting me to do a podcast. I mean, I'm just sort of my everyday store clerk or whatever, God doesn't-- that's Jerry and that's Scott. But, you know, but I would argue, and maybe you would agree, that if God is calling you towards something, it may not be this huge project and you're looking for this. It's just a day to day. How are you being at your job? How are you being with your family or interacting with other people? It doesn't have to be this huge calling. Do you think that?
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:33:24] Oh, I think that's an extremely important point, Scott. People often look, you know, what is the purpose of my life as if it's going to solve world hunger or something, bring about peace between nations. No most of one's duties in life when situation in life is immersed in the people around you, your family or friends, your community, the people you work with. And most of life's duties are to do those things well and to treat people well in those responsibilities. I tell Laura sometimes she is a great woman, and the reason she's a great woman is she's a great mother. She also, as you and I know, keeps this whole project on track, is an extremely competent person. But the most impressive thing I ever hear about, because I hear about her kids and interactions with them, and I think what a great mother. And to raise two kids to this point, they're just coming out of college now. This is a tremendous life achievement. What could be more important than that? Building a corporation, who cares? I mean, that's good too, be a good, honest businessman who delivers services and goods as promised. That's an excellent thing. And people should. I gather the Hindus, you know, you pray, they count in praise before he does the business's books. You know that everything should be infused with that sense of your responsibilities as a spiritual person, and to live the full human life and to give as much life as you can to those around you. And often I'm told, in fact, when I'm worrying about some things, about the book or something else, big, big projects, I'm told your only job is to do what I tell you each day. You know, you get up in the morning and find, okay, put on your shoes, you know, and just do what I tell you. You don't have to achieve anything. That's-- it's a bit what God tells me is like the lesson from the Bhagavad Gita, where you do the right thing without regard to consequences. The consequences are not in your hands. We put the podcast out there. It's not up to us whether a million people are going to listen or not. It's more or less to make it of interest to people and to get the word around. And also your job, the job of anybody is just to do their best in their situation and then ideally to do their best paying attention to what God might want them to do. But it most likely is something very simple and bounded and to get the check in the mail on time or to pay the mortgage.
Scott Langdon [00:36:19] Right, gotta email that letter for God. Got to do it.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:36:21] Yes. Yes. You got to mail that letter.
Scott Langdon [00:36:32]Thank you for listening. To God: An Autobiography, The Podcast. Subscribe for free today wherever you listen to your podcasts and hear a new episode every week. You can hear the complete dramatic adaptation of God: An Autobiography, As Told To A Philosopher by Jerry L. Martin, by beginning with episode one of our podcast and listening through its conclusion with Episode 44. You can read the original true story in the book from which this podcast is adapted. God: An Autobiography, As Told To A Philosopher, available now at Amazon.com, and always at godanautobiography.com. Pick up your own copy today. If you have any questions about this or any other episode, please email us at email@example.com and experience the world from God's perspective as it was told to a philosopher. This is Scott Langdon. I'll see you next time.