Alongside Dr. Jerry L. Martin, explore the timeless question: Is it reasonable to believe in God?
In this captivating exploration, Jerry investigates the intricacies of belief, drawing on historical debates among renowned philosophers and scientists. He examines evidence, rational decision-making, and the pivotal role of belief amid life's uncertainties, offering a perspective that challenges traditional thinking.
Engage in a thought-provoking episode of From God to Jerry to You, where the discussion explores how belief in God can provide a pragmatic framework, infusing life with meaning and purpose. Referencing influential philosophers such as William James, the podcast encourages contemplation on the rationality of belief, the significance of personal experiences, and the quest for understanding the divine.
This episode offers profound reflections on faith, evidence, and the rational pursuit of spiritual comprehension, presenting a compelling argument for a more comprehensive perspective on belief systems. Embrace an open-minded approach while navigating the complex realms of belief and spirituality.
God: An Autobiography, As Told To A Philosopher, is written by Dr. Jerry L. Martin, an agnostic philosopher who heard the voice of God and recorded their conversations. Dr. Jerry L. Martin was head of the National Endowment for the Humanities and of the philosophy department at the University of Colorado at Boulder and founder of Theology Without Walls.
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Scott Langdon [00:00:17] This is God: An Autobiography, The Podcast. A dramatic adaptation and continuing discussion of the book God: An Autobiography, As Told To A Philosopher by Jerry L. Martin. He was a lifelong agnostic, but one day he had an occasion to pray. To his vast surprise, God answered- in words. Being a philosopher, he had a lot of questions, and God had a lot to tell him. Episode 152.
Scott Langdon [00:01:06] Hello and welcome to God: An Autobiography, The Podcast and the sixth offering in our ongoing series. From God to Jerry to You. Jerry starts this week centered around another interesting question that seems to, in so many ways, be at the heart of our daily lives in this modern world: Is it reasonable to believe in God? We invite you to take in what speaks to you and leave behind anything you might not find useful. And if you do find something useful in these words or in any other episode of the podcast, would you mind sharing our work with your family and friends? You can find God: An Autobiography, The Podcast, anywhere you get your podcasts, or by going straight to https://godanautobiography.com/listen/dramaticadaptation. Here now is Jerry sharing his thoughts on the question: Is it reasonable to believe in God? I hope you enjoy the episode.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:02:01] Is it reasonable to believe in God? That question has been debated throughout the history of thought, and perhaps the most illuminating single exchange on it was between an American philosopher and a British scientist. The British scientist William Clifford, who is the Richard Dawkins of his day, an inveterate atheist, gave a well-publicized lecture that was printed as a pamphlet and distributed and is still read in college classrooms today called The Ethics of Belief, in which he argued, strikingly, that it's not only unreasonable to believe something without sufficient evidence, without something close to proof, it's actually immoral. Now, I'll read you some of his culminating comments, really make his attitude clear. And what he does is use religious language against religion itself. "Belief," he said, "is desecrated when given to unproved statements. It is sinful because it is stolen in defiance of our duty to mankind." And he concludes with the sweeping declaration, "It is wrong, always everywhere and for everyone to believe anything upon insufficient evidence." And my personal reaction reading that is: What's it to you, fellow? Don't we get to believe what we want to believe on what evidence makes sense to us?
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:03:35] But William James, the quintessential American philosopher, the founder of pragmatism, which was regarded as the only new American contribution to the history of thought. William James gave it a more thoughtful consideration. He was himself not particularly religious, but he was very open minded. He was a man of science as well as a philosophy taught physiology at Harvard, among other subjects. And as a pragmatist, what he thought is a theory is not just a disembodied set of ideas. It's a set of living thoughts, things you use to live your life intelligently, effectively, successfully, meaningfully. And so when James looked at the actual facts of how we live our lives, what he noticed is that we all the time have to make major decisions on matters where there's no evidence, at least not proof on either side of the belief. The most dramatic example would be you're caught in a burning building. You have belief A that the safest thing to do is to jump out of the window and hope you don't end up a pile of bones at the bottom, or to run for the stairwell and hope you don't end up a pile of ashes at the bottom of the stairwell. You don't have sufficient evidence to confirm either view, but you need to make a decision. Well, of course, most of life is not a burning building. Nevertheless, we're making very consequential decisions. Is it should I stay living in this town or is it actually would I be happier living in California? I don't know if I'll be happier here or a happier there, but I have to make a decision because I'll live life differently in this respect either way. Is this a girl I want to live my life with? That's a decision. You can't have "sufficient evidence" either way. The decision will have great consequences for your life whichever way. Whether you say yes she is or no, she isn't.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:05:48] And belief in God is like that- a highly consequential decision. You can't prove that there is a God. You can't prove that there isn't a God. And so in those cases, William James argued in his essay, it was called The Will to Believe, in those types of cases it's perfectly reasonable to make a choice. In fact, it would be unreasonable not to, and it's up to you, whichever choice you want to make. Well, I find that pretty persuasive, but it seems you need a little bit more, I think, because suppose someone says, well, if it's up to me whether to marry the girl or whether to believe in God, I'll flip a coin. Heads, God, tails, atheist. Well, that's not reasonable. Now, fortunately. We actually have more than coin flipping to avail ourselves of. You know, some people have an idea of evidence and proof that's way too much based on what happens in the laboratory- some physics laboratory somewhere. We don't live lives in a physics laboratory. We live it in all the uncertainties of the world in dealing with other people. And fortunately, nature or something beyond nature has endowed us with many faculties for doing this successfully. We have empathy, which is the ability to understand other people, to understand their intentions, to understand their likely behavior, therefore, know whether you can trust them. To understand traits of character, you know, which is very fundamental in living successfully. You never have proof one way or the other. Occasionally you're wrong, but we have a pretty good ability over time to size a person up. And we have other faculties that are very similar to empathy where you just detect the meanings of things. We we have something you could call life wisdom. You slowly gather it through the course of life. You used to believe some things that now when you look back, well, they were fun, but, you know, that was kind of a superficial way to live. There's something a little deeper and more serious about life. You may have the feeling that the types of friends you had before, well they were fun or they were this or that, they helped you get ahead in your career or something, but you look and there are deeper dimensions to friendship than just those things. And you discover these things through the course of living.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:08:24] And sometimes if you pay careful attention, you have moments where you have a kind of sense of the sacred. It may be private, quiet moments, it may be in a religious ceremony of some kind. It may be a moment of birth or death or a transition like love and marriage or something else. It may be out in nature, you know, where you can suddenly just get a sense that, well, there's something larger, there's a kind of cosmic dimension to life as well. And so you start feeling well, life has deeper meanings, maybe a higher purpose, even a higher calling. And maybe you feel not quite alone. That may be somewhere, somehow there's a benign presence that cares about you that's on your side and to perhaps want something of you. That can happen. And in those cases, these are things it's perfectly reasonable to pay attention to. And they are the kind of evidence that you use that never even aspires to proof, but gives you glimmers of other dimensions of reality that you need to pay attention to. And that is reasonable. It would be unreasonable to ignore them.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:09:50] Well, there's a second resource we have, a second type of resource. At a conference, I heard a speaker, a young scholar, I believe it was, talking about some topic in religion, and I asked him a personal question. Why do you believe? He thought for a moment and answered, "It makes sense of the story of my life." Pretty good answer, I thought. You know, we often think it's part of a-- we have a funny idea of the scientific model. We think you've got to gather a whole bunch of data and evidence and so forth until the stack gets high enough that you can call it proof or sufficient. But in fact, that's not how most things work, even science. You find a framework that makes sense of things in science. You call it a paradigm. You find a framework where you've got all these data that may not stack up into anything, but they can have a pattern. You can read, you can see a meaning in the pattern. And if you look at them through a certain framework, belief in God might be that kind of framework. We all need some kind of framework to live our lives. Our lives have a kind of drama, the meaning of which can be hard to discern. We need some kind of framework that helps us look at the pieces, see what the patterns of meaning are, and live more effectively, more purposefully, more meaningfully. And belief in God might be that kind of framework for you. It's perfectly reasonable to try it and see. If this speaks to you, please subscribe and like and share it with your friends. That might be just what they need to hear today.
Scott Langdon [00:12:00] Thank you for listening to God: An Autobiography, The Podcast. Subscribe for free today wherever you listen to your podcasts and hear a new episode every week. You can hear the complete dramatic adaptation of God: An Autobiography, As Told To A Philosopher by Jerry L. Martin by beginning with episode one of our podcast and listening through its conclusion with Episode 44. You can read the original true story in the book from which this podcast is adapted, God: An Autobiography, As Told to a Philosopher, available now at amazon.com, and always at godanautobiography.com. Pick up your own copy today. If you have any questions about this or any other episode, please email us at questions@godanautobiography.com, and experience the world from God's perspective as it was told to a philosopher. This is Scott Langdon. I'll see you next time.