GOD: An Autobiography, As Told to a Philosopher - The Podcast
GOD: An Autobiography, As Told to a Philosopher - The Podcast
155. The Life Wisdom Project | The Harmony of Spiritual Wisdom and Self-Help | Special Guest: Ajit Dass
Embark on a transformative journey with the latest episode of God: An Autobiography, The Podcast | The Life Wisdom Project. Special guest Ajit Dass joins the conversation, bringing insightful perspectives while exploring and comparing the messages from God: An Autobiography and Conversations with God.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin engages Ajit in a thought-provoking discussion about the depth of life experiences, the importance of acceptance, and the pursuit of one's best self, a harmony of personal growth and profound spiritual insights.
This discussion unravels the nuances of divinely guided purposes and destiny with compelling wisdom on becoming your best self, the pitfalls of sin, pursuing a higher self, and the delicate balance between attachment and non-attachment. Gain valuable perspectives on desires and fulfillment and discover the transformative power of balancing spiritual principles with practical self-help approaches.
Ajit comes to us from Lucknow, India. After completing his post-graduate studies at the globally acclaimed Indian Institute of Technology, he has searched for the true meaning of life and existence for over two decades. He has attended and organized many life-transforming programs and meditation workshops during this time. His blog, Spiritual Pointers, serves as an ocean of inspired wisdom in a glass for readers to find ways to become their best selves!
Join the thoughtful exploration of bringing spirit into daily life and reflect on your spiritual journey during this enlightening conversation that bridges the gap between the spiritual and the practical in the journey toward personal evolution.
Relevant Episodes:
- [Dramatic Adaptation] Another Author Claims to Communicate with God
Other Series:
- Life Wisdom Project- How to live a wiser, happier, and more meaningful life with special guests.
- From God To Jerry To You- Calling for the attention of spiritual seekers everywhere, featuring breakthroughs, pathways, and illuminations.
- Two Philosophers Wrestle With God- Sit in on a dialogue between philosophers about God and the questions we all have.
- What's On Our Mind- Connect the dots with Jerry and Scott over the most recent series of episodes.
- What's On Your Mind- What are readers and listeners saying? What is God saying?
Resources:
- READ: "The Right Way to Ask"
- THE LIFE WISDOM PROJECT PLAYLIST
Hashtags: #lifewisdomproject #godanautobiography #experiencegod
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Scott Langdon [00:00:17] This is God: An Autobiography, The Podcast. A dramatic adaptation and continuing discussion of the book God: An Autobiography, As Told To A Philosopher by Jerry L. Martin. He was a lifelong agnostic, but one day he had an occasion to pray. To his vast surprise, God answered- in words. Being a philosopher, he had a lot of questions, and God had a lot to tell him. Episode 155.
Scott Langdon [00:01:09] Hello and welcome to God: An Autobiography, The Podcast. I'm your host, Scott Langdon, and I'm thrilled this week to bring you another episode of The Life Wisdom Project. This week, Jerry has a very illuminating interview with Ajit Dass all the way from India. Jerry and Ajit discuss episode 12 of our podcast: Another Author Claims to Communicate with God. Ajit brings a unique perspective to the conversation, and it's been really enlightening for me to be able to spend time with his point of view. I'm sure you'll feel the same. I'm curious to hear what you think about what Ajit has to say. If you've got thoughts or questions, drop us an email at: questions@godanautobiography.com. Here's Jerry to introduce Ajit. I hope you enjoy the episode.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:02:05] One of the joys of writing a book and having a website and podcast is that you get to know extraordinary people. Take Ajit Dass- he was one of the first readers of the book. He lives halfway around the world in Lucknow, India, and yet we have become friends. The graduate of the MIT of India, Ajit is also a deep student of the world's wisdom traditions. I knew he had read Neale Donald Walsch's Conversations with God, and in this episode we explore what wisdom Ajit found there. Let's give a listen.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:02:53] I'll just start with welcome, Ajit, and good to see you again.
Ajit Dass [00:02:58] And you too.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:02:58] And we're talking about the life wisdom in episode 12, and I thought of you for this particular episode. You could, of course, do many of these things given your own reflections. You have your own spiritually oriented blog and so forth. But I noticed, in fact on that blog, that we'll give links to, you know, in the surrounding information, I notice that you had mentioned, in fact, I think listed or highlighted Neale Donald Walsch's Conversations with God.
Ajit Dass [00:03:34] Yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:03:34] And as I explained at the beginning of this episode, you know, God had called me with this revelation--.
Ajit Dass [00:03:39] Yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:03:39] And then I go to the bookstore, well here are three volumes of God, apparently giving all of that. I didn't get three eloquent volumes, you know, and what's going on here? And of course, that made me skeptical, and argumentative. And so I argued but God told me, well, he got most of it right. You know, really? He seemed to say different things. But I know you've read both books with care and, I was looking at it, you might say, as a rival. Well, what is this? I've got the word of God. Now he's claiming he's got the word of God, but they don't sound the same.
Ajit Dass [00:04:22] Yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:04:23] But you were coming at it with an open mind, an open spirit, but anyway, what did you make of the two books?
Ajit Dass [00:04:32] So I did read Conversations with God and the entire series first, because it was published first and because of my passion to read such writings, I came across yours as well. And I was drawn towards your writing as well, and it was on the internet, if you remember initially before the book was out.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:04:57] Yes.
Ajit Dass [00:04:57] And I was reading it at that time as well. And so, what I really found the real difference between the two books was that your book had a lot of depth, even describing God beyond God, which is the soul of God, and you even were taken to experience what it is like over there. It's just so amazing to read about. And you very, very earnestly written whatever you felt. So, it was really amazing to see the depth to which life is all about. Whereas in the Conversations with God series, it's more about what is the stage of the world of individuals and institutions and how you could improve upon your life to make a better world. So both have their own purpose. And the second thing that your book had was a lot of theology of the old religions. So whether it's the Chinese philosophies, whether it's Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, all of them have been very, very intelligently described and a synopsis of them given to us in a very concise way that you really understand what all these philosophies are about. And even the misinterpretations and the misinformation, God has tried to rectify in some way, if you believe whatever is being talked about there. That was very, very interesting because I remember you telling me that your book is less of a self-help book, and I would call Conversations with God more self-help, and I was able to find, even in your book, if you can really pick out all the self-help available there.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:07:19] Well, yeah, I -- you know, my assistants where we're trying to promote the book, they're helping with social media and so forth, they kept saying, "You need to draw out the lessons for everyday life, the self-help lessons for people."
Ajit Dass [00:07:35] Yeah.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:07:35] What's going to help them? There's all this big picture soul of God and so forth, but what is that to them? You know, what are all these different points about the religions? So, what does that tell them? I went and read some, so I'm oh, maybe I should somehow try to do that. I went and read a number of self-help books and some of the bestsellers, you know, and I found myself disagreeing with them. And disagreement, of course, wasn't just what Jerry thinks, it was informed by God: An Autobiography, so I thought, well, if there's something in here that doesn't go with what they're saying or that adds to it, or is deeper, then what is that? And that's why we started this series where, you know, I would start pondering what are the implications of this or that section, and one of the implications, you know, something we hit on now, in your description of the two books, we have different missions. The two books have different missions. They're trying to do different things. They have different purposes.
Ajit Dass [00:08:45] Yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:08:46] And something I'm told right in episode 12 is-- the word destiny was mentioned.
Ajit Dass [00:08:57] Yes. Yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:08:58] And God said, "Yes, there is a good for you." In other words, not just generic for humankind There's a good for you, for Jerry, for Ajit, for Abigail. An individual path of evolution.
Ajit Dass [00:09:13] Yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:09:14] And I guess when all of this first happened to me, I assumed well, what I'm told is what God wants everybody to do. But yes, in a way that's true, but in a way it's not. Other people have their own paths and their own destinies, and you have to pay attention to those and accept it. I have to say, you know, as author, or transmitter of God: An Autobiography.
Ajit Dass [00:09:44] Exactly.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:09:46] I had to accept that Neale Donald Walsch has a different purpose.
Ajit Dass [00:09:51] Yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:09:51] And it can be as divinely driven as my purpose. And people who are not looking at this big picture, the local Baptist minister or the rabbi or there's a Hindu temple a little father--.
Ajit Dass [00:10:06] Yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:10:06] They may have their own divinely guided purposes, and I need to relax and accept that. We don't assume they are; they may just be mistaken. You know, just they haven't thought enough, or they aren't deep enough spiritually, or maybe they just thought, "Oh, here's a career path, I'm going to follow it." It's not really a destiny at all. It's just like the career choice to be an insurance salesman or something, but anyway, that's one of the things in this chapter. But what struck you then in terms of self-help in this particular episode, Ajit?
Ajit Dass [00:10:48] Well, coming to some of the words you are using yourself, acceptance and role. So, now if the common thing between both books is both believe that there's a goal and that goal is to experience whatever your desires are and fulfillment of your purpose. So that's what the goal in destiny is. Your purpose is decided, and you have to fulfill it with a set of experiences. And these set of experiences add to your body of work, as your book says. And both books say the same thing in different words. So, it's the ultimate thing is to add to your body of experiences. And God says in this chapter of God: An Autobiography, that He would like you to be your best self.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:11:50] Yes.
Ajit Dass [00:11:51] Now, what is that best self? And both books have described it in different ways. There are certain attitudes, and one of the attitudes is acceptance, and all the attitudes of God in Conversations with God series, but there are five attitudes. So apart from acceptance, there's love, joy, gratitude and blessing. Now, if you choose these attitudes in your life, you tend to become your best self. So, God does want you to be your best self, and what He says-- the other thing that both books talk about is many lives to achieve the different experiences. Both books talk about that, that you need many lives.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:12:48] And God is patient. One thing He says.
Ajit Dass [00:12:50] Yes, yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:12:52] You know God wants you to-- you don't want to just stay how you are because you aren't your best self yet.
Ajit Dass [00:12:59] Yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:13:00] But God is completely patient with how long it might take you to get there.
Ajit Dass [00:13:03] Absolutely.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:13:04] And you'll get lives after this one.
Ajit Dass [00:13:08] And as He says in this chapter of your book, there's no prize for completing this first.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:13:15] It's not like a race.
Ajit Dass [00:13:17] Yeah, it's not like a race. But the prize is that there's less suffering with lesser lives because each life involves a certain amount of suffering, and sacrifice. So, better to not repeat experiences, get on with the next one, and that's one of the things that both books talk about, is that if you get stuck in your life more particularly say with grief or with guilt, then that is the biggest sin that you're doing to life and to yourself. And the best thing is to move on to new experiences, and if you're stuck in a particular experience, you're not going to take the guidance that is coming to you from God. Because you're going to go on and on with the same thing and not receive the nudge from God to move on. So, it's important not to be stuck. Both books have that message.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:14:24] Yes. Yes. Well, of course, I'm told elsewhere in other sections about how sin is so big a theme in my culture.
Ajit Dass [00:14:35] Yes. Yes
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:14:35] The kind of religiosity I was raised in that you can get-- that the biggest sin is to be preoccupied with your sins.
Ajit Dass [00:14:47] Yeah.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:14:48] Carrying, wallowing in guilt. Just going back and revisiting over and over. Oh no. How bad I was, how bad I was. Maybe you were an alcoholic for a time and did- were bad, but now you're not. Then you're home free. Don't go back.
Ajit Dass [00:15:02] Absolutely.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:15:03] And if you do something wrong, what God has told me is don't think, "Oh, how bad a person am I?" You know, it doesn't stick to you in that way. You think why did I do wrong? Maybe I was hanging out with the wrong crowd, or I put myself in a circumstance of temptation or whatever it was.
Ajit Dass [00:15:26] Yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:15:26] You have to go back almost analytically, you know, diagnostic, like, why did I get sick? I exposed myself to the cold when I wasn't feeling well, you know, and so on. And then try to prevent that. So, you try to correct your behavior or try to learn from your mistakes. You don't just say, "Oh, everything I do is always fine." It's not always fun- learn. You're talking about experience, Ajit. Well, you experience failure, including letting yourself down, you might say, in terms of not living up to your own best standards, but you learn that and then your job is to improve it.
Ajit Dass [00:16:39] So, it's very interesting how the best self has been described in the conversations with God, and it just repeated in all the books several times, and that is to see those experiences that will create the grandest version of the greatest vision ever you had about who you are. Amazing- the grandest version of the greatest vision. So, if all of us start thinking that way, I'm sure we're going to evolve to higher and higher levels of harmony with all of life and transition the whole planet into peace.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:17:26] Right. Well, that's interesting because it sounded to me just looking maybe probably more briefly and less generously at Walsch's book, he was just saying, you get everything you want.
Ajit Dass [00:17:40] Yeah.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:17:40] And God tells me, well, "He got most of it right." And I say-- and I go quibbling, you might say, over, well, I wanted this and that and didn't get it, you know. And God says, "Give Me a break." You know, these aren't real examples. But the key becomes, well, you get everything, you know, if you live right, you certainly can get everything your soul wants. You've got, and this is true, even you know, we don't have to talk about soul language, we all have say different levels of desire. I eat too much, and so I'm overweight, and so I desire to be less fat, and yet I also desire the hot fudge sundae.
Ajit Dass [00:18:26] Yeah. Yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:18:29] So one has to say, well, I have these two desires. Now, which one is, you might say, more fundamental. Which one?
Ajit Dass [00:18:39] Yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:18:39] And then, here the soul language is helpful- which one would my soul or my ideal self want?
Ajit Dass [00:18:46] Yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:18:47] The self I'm trying to be rather than the self I've been.
Ajit Dass [00:18:51] Yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:18:51] What does it want? And that's what God wants. You know, God wants what our ideal self wants. And the difficulty, I guess this would be, I don't know how you do it exactly, the difficulty is to get more vividly in touch--.
Ajit Dass [00:19:11] Absolutely.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:19:12] With those desires. So that hot fudge sundaes can be a kind of craving, well you need to crave--
Ajit Dass [00:19:20] Yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:19:21] Not being overweight. You know, you need to generate the same level of commitment. It may not take the form of craving, but the same level of commitment it has to override these. You know, it's the flux at the top of the waves, which is what momentary desires are, things like to overeat or smoke too much or something. There is a deeper current of desire, and that deeper current tends to be what the self, you might say, the real self or self's ideal self that the soul wants and to be in touch with that. And that may just take I mean meditation may help, prayer is how I live, but maybe just some quiet, you know, so that you're not constantly tossed about on the waves of oh, here's that and here's the other thing. And oh, what are we doing tonight? Oh, there's a party, you know. Well, the party is full of-- there's a room of temptations.
Ajit Dass [00:20:23] Yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:20:24] But wait, is that do I need to just every night have a party? You know, I've talked to college students like that, every night's a party. Well, it doesn't add up to very much. You know, what do they have the next morning? Do they have satisfaction the next morning? Well, not quite. They have a hangover, probably.
Ajit Dass [00:20:43] Absolutely. So, it comes down to the same thing. If you analyze it, it is getting stuck on a particular desire, that getting habituated to a particular thing like smoking or being an alcoholic. So that is the biggest sin to be stuck on any, even if it's positive, so-called positive thing that you're doing. Your desire maybe is to meditate, for instance. Now, if you're meditating the whole day, you're not going to be fulfilling any purpose in life. So, you can be stuck on anything. That's what they talk about, is to get out of your habits and be a little free. And the thing that you said that prayer and meditation for a while helps you loosen up and be in a balanced way where you know what is the right path forward.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:21:47] Yes. At some point, I'm just told, "Get quiet." You know, you don't have to go through meditation exercises, or have a prayerful relation to God or something. Just be still. You know, that's a verse from the Old Testament- be still.
Ajit Dass [00:22:01] Be still and know.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:22:01] And know that I'm God. Just be still and be quiet. You know, just take a deep breath. You know, look out the window. Notice the world around you and relax. And somebody told me his problem is, he has trouble distinguishing between the urgent and the important. There are many things-- oh attend to me, attend to me, attend to me, and they're often just that flux of waves on the top of the ocean and aren't what's important, but you can get caught up with that. This person telling me is someone very successful who's got a radio program and writes books and speaks around the country. So, he's constantly, you know, has a rising career. So, of course, that absorbs attention. And then, yes, but he also has a beautiful wife at home, and so on and good friends, and he is an observant Jew, you know, a modern Orthodox Jew, so he has that in his life. And so, he has to step back- well, I can't just run around doing all this other stuff all the time and you have to get back, maybe this would be one of the points, Ajit, get back to the sort of touchstones of one's life.
Ajit Dass [00:23:27] Yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:23:27] Not just preoccupied with activity.
Ajit Dass [00:23:32] Yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:23:32] Well, my wife is important. My family is important. I have these good friends. I don't spend enough just leisurely time with them talking, you know, how is your life? How is my life? What are you thinking about these days? What are you doing? What's important to you? What's important to me? And sharing that with people or just with your neighbors. Well, I don't really know my neighbors very well. So, then why don't we have coffee? Let's have tea and get to know each other, these things are the warp and woof, or texture of life.
Ajit Dass [00:24:07] Absolutely.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:24:08] And touchstones of meaning for these purposes in terms of oh you have got to make some money but how much money do you have to make?
Ajit Dass [00:24:19] Exactly.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:24:19] Self-promotion, it's nice to be noticed, and you get your picture in the paper and so forth, but if you're pursuing those things all the time, you're almost just missing the point.
Ajit Dass [00:24:32] And that nuance I got from your book. It's a very fine line between attachment and non-attachment. God says, have your desires, but when it comes to My work, don't be attached to those desires. You should be willing to give them up and drop them and have a preference for My work, and perhaps My work is being your best self. God's work is being your best self.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:25:03] Yes, that's a good point, Ajit. The advice here is not to give up all desires.
Ajit Dass [00:25:11] Yeah.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:25:11] So, that would be seen as a mistake. Then you become inert. What are you then? What is your life? What are you living about, for? But no, you have desires, including just pleasures. You know, you get dessert occasionally, and that's fine. There are a lot of pleasures. There are beautiful things to see and beautiful people to see.
Ajit Dass [00:25:38] Absolutely.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:25:38] And that's fine, that's fine, but within boundaries.
Ajit Dass [00:25:44] Yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:25:47] All of that should in a sense empower you. It gives you the energy, the psychic stuff to live for higher purposes to become your best if you don't have those, but you don't get fixated on those, if you don't get fixated on them.
Ajit Dass [00:26:06] Yes.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:26:06] You say, well, they're good. I mean, your best self includes those, after all.
Ajit Dass [00:26:16] There's an interesting concept which was given in the Conversations with God.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:26:23] Yeah.
Ajit Dass [00:26:24] That you could bring spirit into economics. But you can't bring economics in the spirit.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:26:35] That's nicely put.
Ajit Dass [00:26:36] You can bring spirit into politics, but you can't bring politics into spirit. So, bringing spirit into your life. It just enhances it tremendously. And you can't take your body into spirit, but you can bring spirit into your body.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:26:54] Yes. Yes.
Ajit Dass [00:26:56] And enjoy all the bounties of this planet amazingly with spirit with you.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:27:05] Yes. Yes.
Ajit Dass [00:27:06] And I've experienced that.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin [00:27:09] Yes. Well, thank you very much, Ajit. It's evening there, morning here, so appreciate that we're working out these time arrangements, and hope to see you again.
Ajit Dass [00:27:22] Absolutely. Thank you so much.
Scott Langdon [00:27:40] Thank you for listening to God: An Autobiography, The Podcast. Subscribe for free today wherever you listen to your podcasts and hear a new episode every week. You can hear the complete dramatic adaptation of God: An Autobiography, As Told To A Philosopher by Jerry L. Martin by beginning with episode one of our podcast and listening through its conclusion with Episode 44. You can read the original true story in the book from which this podcast is adapted, God: An Autobiography, As Told to a Philosopher, available now at amazon.com, and always at godanautobiography.com. Pick up your own copy today. If you have any questions about this or any other episode, please email us at questions@godanautobiography.com, and experience the world from God's perspective as it was told to a philosopher. This is Scott Langdon. I'll see you next time.