GOD: An Autobiography, As Told to a Philosopher - The Podcast

197. What's On Your Mind: Embracing Divine Callings and Personal Courage in Your Spiritual Journey

• Jerry L. Martin, Scott Langdon

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What happens when you pray to be an instrument of God’s will? 

In this captivating episode of What's On Your Mind, Dr. Jerry L. Martin and Scott Langdon explore this profound question, guided by stories from listeners like Don and Mark. Mark’s reflection reveals the life-altering consequences of such a prayer, while Don’s experience of divine intervention reminds us of the mysterious ways God responds. These stories set the stage for a deeper exploration of faith, courage, and surrender.

Dr. Martin shares his own journey of receiving divine callings, navigating moments of doubt, fear of being misunderstood, and the challenge of reconciling his spiritual experiences with a secular world. Through his candid conversation with Scott Langdon, listeners are invited to reflect on the power of attentive prayer and the significance of aligning with God’s will.

This episode offers inspiring stories of divine guidance, the courage it takes to follow God’s call, and the transformative impact of becoming an instrument of a higher purpose. It’s an invitation to explore your own spiritual path, embrace faith, and find meaning in the unexpected answers to your prayers.


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Scott Langdon 00:17: This is God: An Autobiography, The Podcast. A dramatic adaptation and continuing discussion of the book God: An Autobiography, As Told To A Philosopher by Jerry L. Martin. He was a lifelong agnostic, but one day he had an occasion to pray. To his vast surprise, God answered- in words. Being a philosopher, he had a lot of questions, and God had a lot to tell him. Episode 197. Welcome to God: An Autobiography, the Podcast.

Scott Langdon 01:22: I'm Scott Langdon and Jerry and I return this week for a brand new episode of What's on Your Mind. This week we share two emails that were both a response to Jerry sharing something Abigail had asked him. Are you going to take this voice seriously, she asked, or is it just entertainment? If you'd like to share your story of God or ask a question, please email us at questions@godanautobiography.com. Thanks for spending this time with us. I hope you enjoy the episode. Welcome back everybody to another edition of What's On Your Mind. I love this because we get a chance to take some emails that we receive and talk about them and share them. And, Jerry, this is a great couple of emails we have today. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 02:14: Yeah, I think they're both very interesting and they're very much both on point commenting on the very same passage early in God: An Autobiography that was posted on the internet at the website, and I think both are very tuned in comments. 

Scott Langdon 02:37: They're responding to a question or some kind of thing. As I was looking through the emails and picking these for this episode, they're answering a question, or responding at least to a question: Is this just entertainment? And I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that kind of set these up in the context for which they were written, or at least under the umbrella for which they were written. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 02:55: Yeah, yeah, there was something going on and it's a crucial early moment in God: An Autobiography. One could easily glide over it, I suppose, but it's absolutely crucial. You know, I'd had the experience of God speaking to me once, and then God continued to speak to me, sometimes when I was praying, sometimes out of the blue, and I would tell these to Abigail and she wouldn't say much. She would just take them in. And I asked her later why weren't you saying much? And she said well, I thought a rather sensitive communication was going on here and I didn't want to create any static, any complication, just let it take place. But I would tell her oh, God spoke to me again today and He told me such and such, and at one point I wasn't actually quite taking it seriously. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 03:44: It was too bizarre. I was a lifelong agnostic. This thing of God talking to somebody was completely not on my radar screen, and so I was just reporting it as if it was something happened on the way to the forum or as if, oh, the next door neighbor's dog came over and did three backflips or something, you know. Just an odd thing happened. Well, God talked to me today. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 04:07: Another odd, this odd thing happened and Abigail made the crucial comment are you going to take this voice seriously or is this just entertainment? Well, that's where I realized I believed the voice. I believed it was God. It was impossible not to believe it. It was too real and present and authentic and benign not to believe. And yet I had not really taken it to heart. I think especially in the email we're going to look at from Mark, he hones in on that very point. If you're offered to do God's will, are you really willing to accept the consequences? In other words, you know, do what God wants you to do. Anyway, that was a crucial moment in the whole thing where I then think, oh, I've got to take this seriously. I believe it's God, I've got to take this seriously. 

Scott Langdon 05:12: When it comes to the emails of the first two, we're going to look at first the one from Mark, and he says this in his email. 

A Letter from Mark 05:21: Jerry, I find this fascinating. I was once told by a friend that there is a prayer that we must be careful to use and to only use it when we are fully prepared to deal with the affect. It is the prayer to ask how we may become an instrument of Him. I am not surprised that you got the response you did from your request. 

Scott Langdon 05:43: And that email was really interesting to me. It was almost like when I first read it, I don't know if you know the movie Beetlejuice. They're coming out with a sequel now. Right, it starred Michael Keaton as this ghost, and if you say his name three times Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice he appears and wreaks some havoc. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 06:00: Interesting analogy. 

Scott Langdon 06:07: Yeah, well, it's just interesting. Interesting when I was reading this and I thought you've got to be very careful when you use this prayer, almost like it's a spell you might cast, you know. But when you think about that, you think about the consequences, as you mentioned before, right? So, uh, Mark is saying, you know my friend said listen, take this prayer seriously, because it's got real implications. The consequences you never know. 

Scott Langdon 06:30: But it's also what we've talked about before, I think, which is this is what God wants. So if we're going to surrender or ask, hey, God, what do you want? And then you've got to be prepared for what God might say, you got to be prepared for the answer to your prayer. And if we go into prayer going, hey, I think I have an expectation of this outcome and I'm going to pray for this expectation. Well, you know we might not be as effective in prayer as we think we might be, but you answer as you do with all of these emails, and it was your answer and the way that you talk about the prayer that you now pray more often than anything else, and that was really fascinating to me. So maybe you could read your answer to Mark on this email. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 07:19: Yeah, so, Mark, like Abigail is saying, you're going to be an instrument. If you ask God what do You want of me, I'll be your instrument. Well, God might lay claim on the whole rest of your life. You don't know what it's going to be and yet your life should be Godward, ideally. You know what else are you doing if you're just wandering off on your own in the swamps. So anyway, I respond to Mark. Thank you for your penetrating comment. These days, the prayer I say most often is this, “Lord, please give me the desire and the understanding and the strength and the courage to do Thy will.” I pray for all four because if anyone is missing, the effort fails. Wanting to be of service and sensing what God wants of me gives me a sense of direction. The personal health and ability to do what God wants, along with the courage required to actually do it, provide the means. I hope to hear from you again, Mark. 

Scott Langdon 08:41: Yeah, that response was really terrific. And when I emailed you to say hey, I'd like to look at this email today, and one of the reasons is because of your response I was trying to figure out how to word those four things. There were four things that you mentioned and you say if any one of them is missing, we have. You know, it's like a leg that's off a table. It's like I was trying to think of an analogy to it and I don't know. But I thought, but what I said to you was these four attributes. So it's, you know, there are four components. There are four things. Like you said, if you only have, if you have one of them missing, it doesn't quite line up, it doesn't quite work. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 09:25: Well, if you don't have the desire to do God's will at all, then it doesn't matter what instrumentality, health, courage, whatever you have, you're not going to do God's will. You know you've already closed that door in advance and that is a very common human response. You know you just keep that door tight, you know, and you can do that by a kind of militant atheism. But you can also do it just by living your life casually or, you know, with your own preoccupations and you're not interested in any other kind of input into how you're living your life. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 09:57: But you know, people do block out any kind of divine urge or input or fail to notice it. Even sometimes it can be, you know, staring them in the face or hitting them on the head or saying hey, hey, fellow, listen up. No, no, no, we don't listen up, and that's a natural human trait. We live our own lives, we're preoccupied with our own goals, we are full of personal goals after all, things we want and things or just comforts, way of living our life that's comfortable for us, you know, not outside our comfort zone, as they say. But anyway, that's just an example of one of the four components where, if you don't want to do God's will, nothing happens. None of the other components can come into play. 

Scott Langdon 10:51: And the second was understanding, and you kind of mentioned it like sensing what God wants of me. So if you have this desire, and then it's okay, you're going to get some kind of response, because God says you know, seek My will here, I will give you a response. You see me all the time, language like that, and so you're saying God, give me an understanding here. And that understanding comes to us in different ways, but it is a sort of sense of, yeah, this is the right road to go down, this is the right direction, or, you know, maybe I've got to make a course adjustment. So it's a desire to do the will, but also a desire to understand the will. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 11:31: Yeah, you, need to get some. Okay, you'd be sitting there wanting to do what God wants of you, but you have no idea what God wants of you and you can run and grab a pamphlet that will tell you. Ten Things God Wants of You. Various churches and other movements put out documents like that or preachments like that. But is that what God wants of you? You know this is more intimate and personal. It's not what God wants of other people or people in general, or some generic question. What does God want of you? And it might be something very simple. God wanted me to write this whole book and everything. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 12:12: But most of our lives are lived in a much closer proximity just to the other people around us, to our particular roles. You're a parent, you're a husband, you have colleagues at work, you have customers, business and so on, and it may just be doing right by all of those people and living up to your responsibilities, doing them as best you can, whatever they are, just the best husband, the best parent, the best waitress, whatever it is where you can help other people and live up as not just other people. You're also living out your best, being your personal best, as they say in athletic contests. You're trying to make the most of yourself. Be all you can be, not in some generic way, but in terms of your own life. Fulfill it, you know, fill it totally, and I always emphasize that word. I use the word sensing. You know, I had the rare experience of God talking to me in a voice. Well, He wanted me to write a book, so that made a lot of sense. Excuse me, I say Him, God is, of course, neither male nor female, merely, but God wanted me to write a book and so talking to me was a really effective way to getting me to do that and it sort of fit my temperament and so forth. Okay, I can follow words and have questions and can ask God things, but for most of us you don't need to hear a voice. And one of the lessons, as some of the people write in, you weren't even a believer and yet God spoke to you and I just pray and pray and pray and want God to speak to me, and I always tell them relax, relax, relax. I was talking to Jonathan Wiedenbaum in a Life Wisdom episode about this just yesterday as we were recording it, that I tell people relax and let God come to you however, God comes to you. And that's why you and I, Scott, often talk about spiritual discernment. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 14:21: You have to be paying attention, you've got to be looking around, you've got to be open to something having a kind of divine element or urge or opening. And it can just be a friend comes saying oh, I need this help, can you give it? And maybe that's a God-sent task. You might say God, put that person on your doorstep so that you could help them. And it can come all kinds of ways. It can come as an epiphany while you're listening to music. You know this is what's important in life or this is something I need to do, and so it's very personal, intimate, situational in your life, to your even temperament and personality and your particular gifts and lack of gifts, assets and debits. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 15:08: But pay attention and then take it in. Don't have a closed heart, have an open heart, have an open mind and don't dismiss what seems to be coming to you. You have to ponder it and so forth. That's the discernment part. You have to say, oh, is this a task God has put in front of me for me to do? You ponder it and see yes, I think it is, or no, maybe not. It's really just something that happened, that came along in life, because there's that too. There are coincidences and just events, but you pay attention and you can… 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 15:48: What one notices is, if you practice connecting with the divine and being open, you kind of get better at it. You know, as I had to go through when God's speaking to me just in my mind, discerning God's voice from my voice. Well, it seemed pretty clear from the beginning they're really quite different. But sometimes I would have to pause and have I just started thinking on my own and left God behind? So I would stop and pray and try to get connected clearly again. But anyway, whatever comes to a given person, you practice it. You make judgments as best you can there's no infallibility here, no certainty, but you do them as best you can. And then you kind of find out well, I thought that was God and I did it. And my experience, and the experience of an awful lot of people who live this way, is, yeah, it usually does work out. You know, it usually turns out right. 

Scott Langdon 16:58: And then you talk about strength and courage and you describe that sort of as personal health and ability to do what God wants. So you've got a desire to do God's will you seek this understanding and try to get a grip, you know, is this you discern? Is this what you want from me? Is this? And you kind of you feel, yeah, this is the direction I'm going in, and now it takes it might take a physical ability. Now you say God wanted you to write a book, right, and so you gotta do the work to write a book which is not just sit down and start typing. I mean, you had to read and read, and read for a long time. You had to put all these notes out and you know the book that is published is what did you say like a half of the whole manuscript, you know. 

Scott Langdon 18:17: So you're writing, and writing, and writing, and you're doing and, and as a writer and as a philosopher, you know you're working through that character and through that mode of being a philosopher and you're doing the things that. So that takes. It takes a lot of time and it takes a lot of second guessing. That's what a person like you does second guesses and questions and did it? So it's a long thing, it's a long process and it's physically exhausting, it's emotionally exhausting. God, can I have the strength, please, to do this task and let's stay with you. You give up a career and the possibility that your colleagues oh Jerry's crazy gone off the loony bin. Look, I know what that's like. I mean, I have a diagnosed mental illness. I work with bipolar disorder. We've talked about that before. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 19:08: That's part of the challenges you carry through life, right. You have to do God's will, in spite of your bipolar. 

Scott Langdon 19:15: Well, yeah, and maybe even because of it, you know, maybe even not as a thing I got to carry, but a thing that can lead me into a perspective and a way of being that is a gift. I have to take that and go. I got to use this now. Right, we've talked about this a little bit before, but one of the great actors, Michael Caine, great film actor. He tells a story about early in his career where he was doing an improv class and the scene going on inside on the stage, and he was off stage waiting to come in through this doorway and the scene on the stage was the kind of this fight scene they're arguing and it's a whole lot of trouble and he's, his character, is supposed to burst in through the door and you know something, do something whatever. And he in the scrap, in the scene that's going on, somebody threw a chair or something and it slid up against the door and so when he tried to get in the door he couldn't do it. And he says, up, stop, can we stop? 

Scott Langdon 20:12: And the director says what are you doing? And he said, well, I can't get in the doorway because this chair and it wasn't supposed. And he said use the difficulty. Oh, Michael Cain says, well, what do you mean? And he said, well, if they take there's the chair, it's a difficulty, we'll pick up the chair. If it's a comedy, you know, maybe fall over it. If it's an action then smash it and use it as a weapon. You know who knows, whatever, but use that difficulty that's in front of you and I think strength and courage fall into that thought process, that idea. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 20:47: Yeah, that's fascinating. I'm a deep introvert and I often think of that as a liability. But introverts aren't defective. It's actually they have a much richer, you might say, or more intense, internal dimension, and that can be of help too. Einstein was a great introvert, for example, and he's just wrapped up in his thoughts. Well, okay, that's what Einstein was supposed to do and that gave him certain capabilities. You don't have to be an Einstein to be an introvert, but it always gives you this heightened sense of the interior dimension of life. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 21:25: When this first came to me, it was clear God wanted me to do something. I was very unclear of what before it became clear. I was supposed to publish the actual transcript, virtually, of my dialogues with God. But I wondered am I supposed to become somebody like St Paul? Well, he was, you know, almost a madman. You know he was on fire and would go from one place to another and sometimes be stoned or something. But just carry on. I thought. Well, I wouldn't be very good at that. Or am I supposed to have been? I thought of these movie figures: Charlton Heston as Moses. Am I supposed to be like that? Well, I'm not like that. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 22:04: But around that time I saw a TV program it was one of these religion station programs and there was a guy who he sang a song on the program and they talked to him and he'd never been a singer, no known musical talent, and then he felt, God, I'm called to sing gospel music. And he commented about that Whomever God calls, God equips. And so I thought that was a useful thing for me to hear at that moment. Okay, whatever God wants of me, I'm the instrument, and I don't have to worry about not being a way better instrument. There are certain things God wanted me to do. I didn't know enough. He wanted me to pray about the ancient scriptures, the foundational scriptures of the religions, but I had not read them. I was doing secular philosophy, you might say, not studying religion, so I had to go read those and then pray about them. God, what were you up to with the ancient people of China and so forth? But I've come, I guess, to accept that okay, I'm the instrument, which means God accepted this instrument. You know, whatever limitations I have, God chose me to do it. He gave me the task and so my only job. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 23:37: And then one point when I prayed, what is my task? Wondering about these prophets and seers and gurus and everything else, none of which seemed to match me. I was told just to be a serious reporter of what God tells you when you pray and I thought, ah well, that's something I can do. That takes the courage side, which it might be useful to talk about for a minute, because I have found this, living so much in a secular world 20th century we believe in science much more than we believe in anything divine and life in the universities which is very secular and even scoffing of religion, and especially this kind of spiritual experience that I had, and being an introvert and a kind of buttoned down character conventional type personality, you might say I found it deeply embarrassing to tell people, as you mentioned, Scott, I thought they're going to say did you hear, Jerry? He went off the deep end. Too bad. He was such a fine fellow or whatever. He didn't seem like a wacko, but he went off the deep end, okay, and so it was a long time before I let my neighbors in our condominium know. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 25:00: You know, I didn't go around talking to it casually, talking about it casually, and that's taken a kind of courage. It's almost like coming out of the closet. Okay, I'm talking to God, and so I've got to come out of the closet and let people know. Okay, folks, this has happened to me and I take it to be real. I take it to be the real God and I don't take what God tells me to be the last word or the only word that God has to say. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 25:32: The whole history of humankind is a history full of interactions with the divine and right around me, many people having interactions with the divine. So I just have this one particular role. That's then contained. You know, as a friend of mine said, it's a revelation about revelations. A lot of it is what was God up to with all these different religions? That's not the sole part of the book, but there are other parts as well where God is just talking about, you might say, the big questions of life, because I'm asking those questions and God is giving me an answer to them. But anyway, it takes both the means and the instrument. You have to accept both employ your capabilities, accept your limitations and then have whatever courage it requires for you in your situation to then carry through and do it. If it requires being public, do it publicly. 

Scott Langdon 27:02: Our second email comes from Don. And Don writes in and says this

A Letter from Don: Jerry, God is speaking to you and you need to listen carefully and attentively. I know God answers prayer, not always immediately or verbally, but in some way or another. Years ago I was doing a project for our church and needed some help that my wife who was with me could not provide so as we sat for lunch I prayed a specific prayer for the help I needed. Within 20 minutes God sent a man who asked me if I needed help with a specific project. I answered him with an affirmative, he helped me with the project. He had no way of knowing I needed this help had he not been sent by God. After we completed this project I thanked him and he walked away. I had never seen this person before and have never seen him again. Good luck with the book.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 27:56: Yes, that's a nice final word from Don, and what I said at the time wrote to Don. Just Don, thank you for your kind words and for sharing an experience of your own with us. Bless you. And I guess I think of this segment about What's on Your Mind is very much based on people just sharing their stories. These are of incalculable value. You know, this is what happened to me. Let me hear what happened to you and to you and you and you and you that people have these amazing stories full of wisdom, insight. Sometimes they're stories of people in trouble, but we need to hear those stories too. We need to hear the stories of people in trouble too. And some are stories of people who find they can't believe in God or anything divine or in that direction, and well, that's part of the human condition also. So, anyway, these stories are of such value to all of us and they're all worth mulling over, including this one from Don. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 29:09: My favorite part actually of the prayer from Don is not the kind of divine intervention story, but: God’s speaking, you need to listen carefully and attentively. You know we always talk about listen as the first category. You know the name of the part one of God: An Autobiography, one of the first things God said to me, listen, listen, listen. And listen means you've got to pay close attention, and Don is seeing that. And then God answers prayer I think Don's right on target here. Not always immediately or verbally, so you have to kind of wait and just kind of look around and see ah, here's the answer. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 29:55: He then tells a miracle story, and I always have mixed feelings about those because, as I as well, God said to me I'm not a rescue helicopter, God is not 911. And God is not as reliable as 911. 911 comes like close to 100% of the time, as far as I can tell. God you pray, pray, pray, save granny. Granny may die anyway. This is a very common human experience, and so, from my point of view, when people talk about God answering prayer, they usually mean God gave me what I wanted. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 30:36: But the crucial prayer is Thy will be done. So that four-part prayer we looked at with desire, understanding, strength and courage as the elements, four elements. They all end with to do thy will, and I call that a God-centered prayer. Let me do Thy will. And typically, and if God tells me then what to do, you know gives me a sense of direction, then God has answered that prayer. 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 31:19: But typically people do the prayers let God do what I want. There's nothing wrong with that. I mean, I'm told God says, of course, let Me know how it is with you and if you want something from Me, let Me know that God wants to know that, because God's right in our lives, with us, beside us, on our side, and God is for us and in whatever way that's mysterious for us to understand, God does sometimes help. You know, do these kind of very unusual connectives, someone who had no way of knowing what they needed, just showing up and saying, oh, I can do that for you. And this is a human experience also and is part of the dynamic of divine human relationships. 

Scott Langdon 32:11: Thank you for listening to God: An Autobiography, The Podcast. Subscribe for free today wherever you listen to your podcasts and hear a new episode every week. You can hear the complete dramatic adaptation of God: An Autobiography, As Told To A Philosopher by Jerry L. Martin by beginning with episode one of our podcast and listening through its conclusion with Episode 44. You can read the original true story in the book from which this podcast is adapted, God: An Autobiography, As Told to a Philosopher, available now at amazon.com, and always at godanautobiography.com. Pick up your own copy today. If you have any questions about this or any other episode, please email us at questions@godanautobiography.com, and experience the world from God's perspective as it was told to a philosopher. This is Jerry Martin. I'll see you next time.