GOD: An Autobiography, As Told to a Philosopher - The Podcast

219. What's on Your Mind- Divine Encounters & Obedience: Listener Stories of Faith and Transformation

• Jerry L. Martin, Scott Langdon

Share episode

Questions? Comments? Text Us!

In this episode of What's On  Your Mind we explore two powerful listener stories that highlight the theme of obedience, faith, and divine encounters. 

Raymond shares an unexpected moment of overwhelming emotion and spiritual awakening while listening to a song, leading him to an intense experience of seeking forgiveness and hearing a divine voice. 

Meanwhile, Beverly reflects on her lifelong spiritual journey beyond traditional religion, searching for a deeper connection with the ‘God force’ in unexpected places.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin and Scott Langdon discuss these profound experiences, exploring the significance of divine nudges, obedience, and personal faith transformations. 

How do we recognize and respond to moments of spiritual awakening? What does it mean to ‘get up’ after encountering God?

Join us for an inspiring conversation on the personal and institutional aspects of faith, and share your own story at questions@godanautobiography.com.

Subscribe and listen now!

Discover the Inspiration

Explore the book that sparked it all: God: An Autobiography, As Told to a Philosopher. Get your copy on Amazon.

Other Series:

Resources:

Hashtags: #whatsonyourmind #godanautobiography #experiencegod

Would you like to be featured on the show or have questions about spirituality or divine communication? Share your story or experience with God! We'd love to hear from you!

Share Your Story | Site | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | YouTube

Scott Langdon 00:17: This is God: An Autobiography, The Podcast, a dramatic adaptation and continuing discussion of the book God: An Autobiography as Told to a Philosopher by Jerry L Martin. He was a lifelong agnostic, but one day he had an occasion to pray. To his vast surprise, God answered in words. Being a philosopher, he had a lot of questions and God had a lot to tell him. Episode 219.

Scott Langdon 01:11: Welcome to God: An Autobiography, The Podcast, I’m Scott Langdon and Jerry and I return this week for . In this series Jerry and I respond to emails we have received from folks who write in and share their stories of God, whether it be an encounter of some kind, a story about their faith journey complete with doubts and fears or anything in between. In this episode we talk about two letters we received that have to do with a larger theme of obedience but come at the subject from two different angles.

If you'd like to share your story with use please drop us amd email. Thank you, friends. Welcome back to another edition of what's on your Mind. I'm Scott Langdon. I'm here with Jerry Martin and we have two wonderful emails to discuss and they are wrapped up in the theme of our recent episodes in this unit, and that theme is obedience, and these two emails that were written into us really talk about that subject, but from two different perspectives, and, jerry, I'm really excited to talk about them today.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 02:28: Yeah, obedience is a central topic. As you know, Scott, I was told when we got to the story of Abraham in the Old Testament that God told me this is the most important part of the whole Old Testament and it's a story primarily, it would appear, of obedience, and it's a story, primarily, it would appear, of obedience, and so it's a big theme and I did my reflections on it where I looked more broadly in the book, got an autobiography to see where obedience had come up, and maybe I'll share some of that as we go along because I think it's relevant to these emails we're going to be discussing?

Scott Langdon 03:03: Yes, and of these two emails, the first comes from Raymond. Raymond writes a very personal experience about something that happened to him very recently. In relation to the time he wrote this email, he says this

A LETTER FROM RAYMOND: I just have to relate this to someone, and this seems as good a place as any. I was baptized as an adult and, honestly, have fallen away from faith the older I get. I was just this morning in my office listening to the song People Are Crazy by Billy Currington not a particularly faith-filled song, if you know it. A line in the song says something about sitting in a bar talking about God's grace.

A LETTER FROM RAYMOND 03:46: Within five seconds of hearing those words, I was absolutely struck by sadness, fear, confusion and a massive burden in my heart. I started crying, which I very seldom do, and could not figure out what was happening. Within 30 or 40 seconds, I instinctively fell to my knees in my office, sobbing and begging for forgiveness. I knelt there for probably five minutes before trying to get up in case someone came in. I couldn't. It felt like I was glued to the floor. It was only after I knelt there and properly consciously asked God for forgiveness in Jesus' name did I hear more like felt a quiet voice telling me Get up. Honestly, I resisted at first, but it kept saying Get up. So here I am relating this Wow, I'm a bit blown away, yeah isn't that something?

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 04:46: Isn't that something and so good of Raymond to share it with me? And here's my response at the time that he first sent this in this is good news, Raymond there was, as you put it, a massive burden in your heart. It is a deeply spiritual, grace-filled moment when you feel the sadness, fear and confusion caused by that burden. It is indeed a moment for falling and pouring out your heart to God. That opened your heart to hearing or feeling the divine voice. Of course you are blown away. Your story blows me away, but take time to ponder the meaning of get up. There may be a deeper message there. Bless you for sharing. Isn't that a story, Scott?

Scott Langdon 05:45: Yeah, it's a great one. It struck me because it was such a personal thing and also that it happened that morning when he wrote the email, he had been not even really thinking much about it. He hears a song that's not particularly faith-filled, doesn't have much to do with that at all, and all of a sudden there's a lyric, a little something that catches you and he, you know he's moved by that deeply, and that's what music can do. You know we've talked about this a lot before music, theater, poetry, you know all of those sort of deeper level connecting places. You know where often we're not expecting something to get to us.

Scott Langdon 06:29: And that happens, that happens to me a lot, and so I often wonder, you know, is this a divine nudge, as we call it? Is this something that's there to wake me up? Is it meant to wake me up? But then I, then I recently, with those things I don't ask those questions as much anymore Like I don't say is this a nut? If, if it's making me wake up and consider and think about my life and the direction I want to go in, I'm taking that as a divine nudge. I'm calling it that divine nudge.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 07:02: I'm calling it that Sure. Yeah, why worry?

Scott Langdon 07:04 about that it doesn't.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 07:05: In one sense it doesn't matter, obviously. There's another sense in which it matters greatly whether it's divine or impish, or something you know, or egocentric or whatever, but on the whole it's something that comes to you and it's best just to take it in and not worry over it. And what comes to Raymond? It's so striking. He hears some words God's grace. Who knows in his background what the natural triggers of that expression were? But it came to him. He picked whatever it was. He was open to that. That's one of the things that strike me. Raymond was open to being affected by this phrase, so his heart was, you might say, near the surface. It wasn't all deep down buried behind barricades. And I think we should pay these emails a lot of close attention, and Raymond himself should pay close attention to those feelings, because each of those feelings actually tells him something.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 08:17: Sadness what is he sad about? Fear, ah, what does he fear? An awful lot of our lives is both what we desire and hope for and also what we fear or maybe are angry about or dislike. So you always have to look at these two sides, because they're both informative. And here there's fear that he needs to take into account somehow, and confusion, and I don't know. There are many ways of being confused and I don't know exactly his way, but it all seems to reflect a massive burden in his heart and that's all for him to figure out. We can't figure it out. If he were here in the room we could be talking about it, but here we just have the text. But whatever all of that means and this massive burden, it's such that he starts crying and he can't stop, he's just crying, and this says something about the background and what it means to him.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 09:26: Begging for forgiveness and here again it's hard to tell if you're within a certain religious frame, as he starts out being. Then forgiveness has a whole doctrinal aspects and is the whole kind of pilgrim's progress of life or something. You go through, a kind of reflection on where you've gone wrong and then you want forgiveness for that. But we don't know his story and any of us at any point in life, whether we're religious or not, may feel oh you know, gee, I've done some things I regret, haven't I? And so there's just regret. You know, oops, I wasn't my best that day. You know, I wasn't my best and I wish I were my best, and one way of expressing that rather naturally again, even if you don't have a big belief in God, is I hope everybody will forgive me for having been really bad that day. I've done things I regret. I don't deny them. I do ask if people forgive me and you kind of need to forgive yourself.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 10:35: I mean, I'm told about guilt elsewhere in God, in autobiography. Don't wallow in guilt. He's in danger of that, I would say Raymond is because he's overwhelmed. When it in danger of that, I would say Raymond is because he's overwhelmed. When it hits you, it's kind of overwhelming. But to you, I'm told, god tells me use it something like more diagnostically oh, I really have gone wrong.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 11:09: Why? What led me to go wrong? Did I put myself in the wrong circumstances? Did I draw in bad influences? Did I maybe I'm drinking too much or don't exercise enough? I'm not doing healthy things? I used to have people who loved me and I've pushed them away.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 11:25: You know it can be any number of things, because there's so many ways to go wrong and right and the Bible says narrow is the way at some point, and it often feels that way because there are more ways to go wrong than there are to go right. So Raymond is in that, and this is this moment of—this is itself the moment of grace, even though it feels like a moment oh no, I've been so bad, just please forgive me but in fact it's a moment of grace. Some new life is coming in to replace what he now, let's say, regrets, and he hears a voice or feels it. This is an important lesson itself. You know, the people who write us write with precision, and the precision isn't because they're great. You know, they're theologians who sculpt the words, or you know professional writers who sculpt. It's because this is how it naturally comes out, and the way it naturally comes out is actually the most accurate way and the most vivid way and the most precise way. And so he hears or felt, and it's best just to let.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 12:42: If you have a sense of God communicating with you in some way, you don't have to worry over oh, is it a voice? Sense of God communicating with you in some way you don't have to worry over. Oh, is it a voice, not a voice? Is there a God, not a God? Jung liked to talk about the higher self who cares. In a sense, it's a voice, that's. It's something you need to be paying attention to, and I take it to be God and you do, scott, as you just said. But I don't think one needs to get hung up on that question. You just say whoa, this has happened to me and I have this deep, deep feeling I'm talking for Raymond here. I have this deep, deep feeling of sadness, fear and confusion based on mistakes. I've made things I've done wrong. Any way, I ask for forgiveness.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 13:31: And now I hear a voice, or feel a voice, but something is telling me get up. And of course he's on his feet, you know, on his knees or whatever, glued to the floor, as he puts it. And so get up first has a literal application Okay, don't just stay on the floor. You know there's not much future living or solution or insight, just there. He's had the moment on the floor, now it's time to get up there. He's had the moment on the floor, now it's time to get up. And I was also struck you know why I didn't pay such attention to the language and he resisted the voice, but it kept saying get up. So he says I was struck by the word so. So he said here I am relating this.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 14:27: So I take it that the first step in getting up was to share his story. You know it's kind of let your light shine. The light can't shine as long as you're just on the floor feeling guilty and asking for forgiveness. But you start sharing that story with others, then you are letting your light shine and you're illuminating the lives of people around you, because we all go through these kinds of moments one way or another in our own different patterns and shapes and forms and sounds and sights.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 15:04: And he needs to figure out and of course we don't know the whole of Raymond's life. He hasn't here reflected on that yet, but I advise him, look for the deeper message what in your life do you need to get up to? What do you need to rise? Do you need to stand up for something or rise to a challenge? Or, I'm putting it, get up to show your light shine. You know, but it can mean many things, but in the concrete circumstances of his life, of Raymond's life, it must mean something, I would think, not just abstract and general and generic, but something rather specific. There are things he needs to do that would fulfill the command to get up.

Scott Langdon 16:24: Our second email this week comes from Beverly and, unlike Raymond's, she is well. She's coming from a personal perspective her own. But instead of examining in this email her personal journey in terms of a specific relationship or a specific encounter with God the way Raymond talks about it in that personal way relationship or a specific encounter with God, the way Raymond talks about it in that personal way she is looking more along the lines of the corporate or the institutional aspect of religion. And here's what she says. Beverly writes in and says this my sister, linda, gave me your website to check out. I found your interactions with God very interesting.

A LETTER FROM BEVERLY 17:08: We were raised in a Christian family, went to church every Sunday and spent a lot of time involved in church activities. As a young adult, I spent a lot of time reading books on different religions, visiting their churches to check out how they felt. I even spent six months in a psychic commune in the mountains north of Phoenix, an experience that opened my eyes and heart to the things in our universe that we cannot intellectually understand but exist nonetheless. I do not consider myself religious, but I do consider myself spiritual. As my life path goes on, I am trying to learn more about that God force that I know is out there. I like what I've read. Keep up the good work, bev. So that was a pleasant email and a lovely thing to say.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 17:56: Yeah, that's a nice heartening note at the end, isn't it? You know she's not just worrying about her own situation. She wants us to keep up our good work in God and Autobiography podcast and book. But here's what I wrote at the time, because it's a very interesting email. I said, beverly, I find your spiritual journey fascinating.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 18:22: I've puzzled over the distinction between religion and spirituality. Later in the book I ask about a church. My taxi is passing and I'm told there are a lot of good people there, but they are not very spiritual. Historically, religion has been the chief vehicle for the Spirit. It is sad when that is not so. So Beverly's situation is somehow, though, she doesn't rail against the church, she's more on a search, and the church is not the vehicle for that much. The vehicle for that search Anything is, you might say, a psychic commune in the mountains north of Phoenix. She doesn't really mention the other, but she's trying to figure out more about the God force is how it comes to her, the natural expression for it, the kind of divine force or presence that she knows is out there. She still is obviously feels a part of what she's seeking is it's still out there. She is not yet fully connected with the God force or internalized it or taken in that part that's within her already. We would, you and I would believe Scott but she stays on that journey and that's the right thing to do.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 19:59: Some have found the finding of God is the seeking of God. You know you don't seek for something that isn't there. As Richard Oxenberg says in our dialogues, you feel hungry. There must be such a thing as food. You might say the argument from hunger for the existence of food, the God force is. You're searching for it. You know you feel that life isn't complete without it. This is what you need, and I'm not down on organized religion as much as many people, but I often read William James, the great American philosopher who wrote Varieties of Religious Experience.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 20:48: Who wrote Varieties of Religious Experience and James' account of religion is. There's a founder of each tradition, religious tradition whose is God-filled, who's filled with the Spirit, whether called God or not Buddhists don't call it God and so forth normally but filled with the Spirit and having new revelations and breakthroughs. And you know, wow, and the world now looks completely different. You're seeing the world through new eyes when you follow one of these founders, but over time it becomes institutionalized and creeds are developed and you know hymnals and pews and you know holy water and you know festivals and on and on and on and on. And the danger and there's nothing wrong with that. That may all be ways of opening a person to the divine, of leading them, enriching their relation to the divine. On the other hand, as I like the church, I think we're passing.

 

 

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 21:47: The implication was sort of it's lost its vitality, it's become rote behavior. You go to church every week because you're supposed to go to church every week and you kneel when they say to kneel, because you're supposed to kneel when they say to kneel. And so you sing songs. You know Mighty Fortress is Our God, or whatever, because you're supposed to sing hymns and that's one of the hymns in your hymnal, and so on. So it all becomes and it's a good place. Oh, if you need to get married or want a child christened or something, it's a place for family transitions, let's call them, and okay, that's all fine. But there should be, I guess, even theology some people are down on, but doctrines can get in the way, but they can also educate your faith, you know, make it richer and more discerning, more precise, more discerning, and help you separate kind of valid seeking from less valid seeking. And so nothing wrong with doctrines, but when doctrines start getting in the way and this is, I think, in our era, an obstacle the young person who goes to church and I know I've looked at some in our area the first thing you confront is these are the things you have to believe. Well, the seeker, the genuine seeker, doesn't yet know what they believe and, so to say, as the entrance requirement, you already have to come to these conclusions. That's not very helpful.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 23:22: In looking at churches in our area, somebody called my attention to one they call the Hippies Church and it was founded by a bunch of people, you might say in the wake of the 50s, but it's the Pebble Hill Church is the name, and it's a church where you look at their creed. You know, I went before they invited me to speak, so I looked to see oh, what are these people about? Ah, the creed isn't exactly a creed, it's a goal, what we're all about, and basically it's a church where everyone is trying to be helpful to the other congregants in their spiritual journeys. So we're all on a spiritual journey, but it's not often the mountains alone, although that is one of the things you could do, or found just in meditation in your basement, as we do here but it can be found in community and in talking with others. And not community in the sense of, oh, here are iron gates and stony walls, but in, here's a community of exploration and we all believe that there is something upward and finer. And what is that and how do you connect with it and how do you incorporate it into your own life, how do you live it out? And they're all exploring that. And I'm happy to say it's the only time I believe that I've ever gotten like a standing ovation.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 24:59: I shared the parts. In fact I thought, oh, these people are going to be easy because they already believe what I believe. But my guidance in prayer I always pray before these things, just not to not be going off on my own. Tell them what they don't know. That was the guidance I got when I prayed about it before my presentation and I thought, ah, what they don't know. I shared the parts about the suffering of God and they didn't know that wouldn't have occurred to them, given the roots they were on. And yet they took it in an open way and showed the greatest appreciation, and so that was a spiritual community where you could go, say that, and you didn't have to cite the scriptures of this or that church or tradition. You didn't have to quote Martin Luther or Francis Xavier or somebody, or Krishna or the Buddha, you could just share. Here's what I got from God.

Scott Langdon 26:08: Here's how God suffers the evangelical church in America is having a really difficult time right now and that's the tradition in which I did, you know, most of my growing up, from 13 years old on um, you know, up and through college and such. We've talked about this before on this program. But my path and my two younger brothers paths are different and my two younger brothers' paths are different and my two younger brothers have chosen to work within the faith tradition of their community and they're doing really wonderful work and I applaud them for it, and they're building community and working out of community that way in Oklahoma.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 26:56: You remain friends, don't you? My brothers and me? Yeah, oh, certainly, and you're not alienated from them because of this. Different paths.

Scott Langdon 27:05: Oh goodness, no, absolutely no, which is wonderful. Not many, well, I'm not sure how many. It's not always the case where that kind of thing happens in a family. Um, in the tradition that I grew up in, um, there is a lot of splitting and whatever, but no, not at all with us. In fact, um, to the opposite degree, I think my brothers have been very supportive of me and, uh, I have them. I hope they know that. But, um, and I have them. I hope they know that, but it's not like I will.

Scott Langdon 27:40: I'll never step foot in a church again. I mean, I it's not that at all. In fact, I want to step in every church, any church, and you know any gathering of folks that are interested in you know love, joy and peace, and you know it's so, not just from a. I mean, I feel like I've had this movement from um. You know what to avoid growing up here's, here's your faith.

Scott Langdon 28:09: You have to have an answer for your faith was the way they talked about it, which meant you need to know. Anytime somebody questions your faith, you got to have an answer, which meant you need to know. Anytime somebody questions your faith, you got to have an answer for it. You got to have the knowledge and these are the faiths and the different paths that you need to avoid, because if you kind of mingle with this over here, it's going to corrupt your faith, corrupt your belief system. That's really what we're talking about is a belief system here.

Scott Langdon 28:33: So when I kind of shed, when I was able to shed that and flip it on its head for me, which is now bring me a teaching. If there's a teaching, I want it. You know, I don't care if it's from you know, and even if it's something that's presented and I'm examining it, whatever it is hearing somebody or reading a book or whatever I trust that God and I are in this, traveling together. So if I'm reading something and it's quote unquote, leading me astray, well, god's going to course correct that. That's my faith. My inside is inside is god. I want to do your will.

Scott Langdon 29:20: So I'm gonna make mistakes? Of course I am, but I'm, I trust that I'm not going to be led down satan's path. Do you know what I mean? How can jesus talks about that when he says how can I be of satan? They said he's of Beelzebub. You know. He said well, a house against itself cannot stand. And that's the same thing I mean. If one is looking for God's will, one cannot be led down the false path, can they? I don't see how that's possible.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 29:55: Yeah, that's a different vocabulary and context. That's the point of my new book, radically personal, uh, uh which is based on you know, I'm an epistemologist, which is we're asked what, what kinds of things can human beings know, and how do they know it? And the tradition is based on people, like Descartes often, who are big skeptics. And they start with how on earth do you overcome skepticism? Because you can doubt, doubt everything. And the alternative, as I developed it, is an epistemics of trust and the key value, as one of the authors I draw on puts it, is self-trust. And you have to trust yourself. You're going to learn nothing from experience if you doubt it all. So each experience you have to probe, take it in as best you can, as full-heartedly and full-mindedly as you can, and then probe it for what truth it can shed on for you. And then it sounds solipsistic because of that title, radically personal.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 31:13: But you also trust others. Sometimes, on a given matter, you trust someone else more than yourself. They're an expert or they have good judgment of character or of art or something, so you have reason to trust them. And again, a community is a community of mutual trust, basically that you each trust yourself and you try to stay on the right path and you trust that where you make mistakes, they can be corrected by this very same process of seeking that no mistake has to be ineradicable. You know that you can revise and improve and deepen as you go along. So I very much share that sense, scott, that you're expressing, that you live your spiritual journey. You have to live it fully, as both these writers have done for us. You've got to live it fully and see what all it can tell you, and they're both on somewhat different paths, but they're being told what they need to be told. You know they're discovering what they need to discover and that's what life is about.

Scott Langdon 32:28: We thank you, Raymond and Beverly, for writing in, and if you're listening and you want to share your story of God with us, we would love to hear from you. Please drop us an email at . We'd love to hear what you have to say and we'd love to hear your stories, Jerry. I'm so glad we had a chance to talk about these two today.

Dr. Jerry L. Martin 32:48: Yeah, they were just great.

Scott Langdon 33:02: Thank you for listening to God: An Autobiography, The Podcast. Subscribe for free today wherever you listen to your podcasts and hear a new episode every week. You can hear the complete dramatic adaptation of God: An Autobiography, As Told To A Philosopher by Jerry L. Martin by beginning with episode one of our podcast and listening through its conclusion with Episode 44. You can read the original true story in the book from which this podcast is adapted, God: An Autobiography, As Told to a Philosopher, available now at , and always at . Pick up your own copy today. If you have any questions about this or any other episode, please email us at , and experience the world from God's perspective as it was told to a philosopher. This is Scott Langdon. I'll see you next time.