GOD: An Autobiography, As Told to a Philosopher - The Podcast
GOD: An Autobiography, As Told to a Philosopher - The Podcast
246. What’s Your Spiritual Story: Joel Weiner on Rediscovering Judaism, God, and the New Axial Age
What’s your spiritual story? In this episode of God: An Autobiography, The Podcast, philosopher Jerry L. Martin sits down with Joel Weiner to explore a journey that moves from childhood faith, through rejection, to rediscovery and renewal.
Joel grew up in a Jewish home in Philadelphia, went through Hebrew school, and walked away from synagogue life right after his bar mitzvah. Years later, he found his way back, first through the Reform movement at Keneseth Israel, and later as a leader at Temple Judea, where Torah study and community reignited his spiritual curiosity.
Along the way, Joel encountered Jewish Renewal, Hasidic inspiration, and the deeper wisdom behind Torah stories. Together, he and Jerry discuss what it means to be “chosen,” the role of Midrash, how different faiths can walk many roads to God, and why the New Axial Age invites us to see religion beyond walls and labels.
From ecology and technology as gifts of God, to the sacred task of tikkun olam—repairing the world—Joel shares how spirituality becomes real in everyday life. His story shows how faith can evolve with honesty, reason, and heart.
✨ Listen now to discover how Jewish tradition, spiritual renewal, and universal wisdom come together in a personal search for meaning.
Other Series:
The podcast began with the Dramatic Adaptation of the book and now has several series:
The Life Wisdom Project – Spiritual insights on living a wiser, more meaningful life.
From God to Jerry to You – Divine messages and breakthroughs for seekers.
Two Philosophers Wrestle With God – A dialogue on God, truth, and reason.
Jerry & Abigail: An Intimate Dialogue – Love, faith, and divine presence in partnership.
What’s Your Spiritual Story – Real stories of people changed by encounters with God.
What’s On Our Mind – Reflections from Jerry and Scott on recent episodes.
What’s On Your Mind – Listener questions, divine answers, and open dialogue.
Stay Connected
- Share your thoughts or questions at questions@godandautobiography.com
- 📖 Get the book
Share Your Story | Site | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | YouTube
Scott Langdon 00:17: This is God: An Autobiography, The Podcast, a dramatic adaptation and continuing discussion of the book God: An Autobiography as Told to a Philosopher by Jerry L Martin. He was a lifelong agnostic, but one day he had an occasion to pray. To his vast surprise, God answered in words. Being a philosopher, he had a lot of questions and God had a lot to tell him.
Scott Langdon 01:13: Hello. Welcome to God: An Autobiography, The Podcast. I'm Scott Langdon and on this week's episode of the podcast, Jerry has a conversation with Joel Weiner as he answers the question: what's your spiritual story? As you're about to hear, Joel's spiritual story is rooted in his Jewish upbringing and truly began to grow when he returned to those roots later in his life with a new heart and mind, pointed toward what we have recently been talking about on this program: the new axial age that God spoke to Jerry about. Join Jerry and Joel for our latest edition of What's Your Spiritual Story?. Here's Jerry. I hope you enjoy the episode.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin 02:02: Hello Joel Weiner.
Joel Weiner: How are you, Jerry?
Dr. Jerry L. Martin: I'm very pleased to have a chance to have this conversation with you. As you and I know, my wife, Abigail, is a member of the Jewish congregation Temple Judea and for a long time you were just a name to me because you would report either people participating in Torah study or what was going on at the temple. And you and some others are engaged in heroic leadership in the context of a temple that's gone through rough times, dealing with a period without a rabbi, for example, where you're giving both you know, handling the practical crises and also trying to and succeeding, as far as I could tell, in sustaining a valuable and, in some ways, innovative spiritual life.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin 03:03: Anyway, having heard about you, it was a surprise to me when Abigail told me that I guess you had told her that you were reading God: An Autobiography and before it was published, excerpts online. I thought that was remarkable and if I could, let's go back before that event and just talk a little bit about your spiritual background. In what sense were you raised Jewish? Because that's a different story for different people. And then, where did your own thought and life take you after that after your I might say upbringing.
Joel Weiner 03:40: Sure, I was raised Jewish, grew up in Philadelphia.I was born in 1949, so right in the middle of the baby boomers. I have two sisters, one older, one younger. So I was the only boy. I was given a religious education. The girls were not.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin 04:00: Okay. That's the old style.
Joel Weiner: Right My parents were not called observant, but they were culturally Jewish, they identified as Jewish, they were keenly aware of the Holocaust after WWII, actually that news was trickling out, so it was important to live in a Jewish neighborhood and so forth. And I went to Hebrew school and so forth. I was a good student, but the grades in Hebrew school goes, which is Aleph, Bet, Gimel, Dalet, He, A, B, C, D, E, it's just the Hebrew alphabet. I got A in Aleph, all A's in Aleph, I got all B's in Bet, all C's in Gimel, all D's in Dalet and I did not finish He. My bar mitzvah was in September and I told my father, I said I am not going to synagogue one day after my bar mitzvah. I just did not like it. I used to get psychosomatic headaches having to go to Hebrew school. And it was Conservative. There was a Reformed Conservative and Orthodox.
Joel Weiner 05:12: So, that was like the middle of the road You know, getting ahead of ourselves. But I became an optician and a scientist and so forth and I was always very rational, a logical thinker. Rational, the logical thinker. The way it was taught, it was a bunch of magic stories that just didn't hang together. And I threw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak, because I just said no, I don't believe this, and I would have called... If you would have talked to me, Joel, at 14, I would have said I was an atheist. Sometimes I said I was an agnostic when I didn't want to get into an argument, but it was just I stayed away from it. We got married. My son was when he was born, I guess I was about 25.
Joel Weiner 05:59: We were living in Elkins Park, Pennsylvania,. We sent them to KI Keneseth Israel, which is a large Reformed congregation in Elkins Park, very famous, and they gave free with the nursery school, you got a free membership. Caroline said you know what? Let's, we're members, okay, let's, let's try it.
Joel Weiner 06:30: And we went there, it was a world of difference because the rabbi did not at least this is the way it felt to me. He was not talking down to us. He was very well prepared. First of all, the services were shorter, which I appreciated. The sermons were very well prepared. The sermons were a big part of it and they were, like I say, well prepared and not talking down to you as an adult, and also relevant to and I forget what the topics were, of course, but they were relevant. They weren't just the Torah or something. It was well, here's what the sages or the rabbis would say, but here's what it means and here's how we apply it to life. And that appealed to us and it was from that that it grew, you know, kind of a growing appreciation for the religion.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin 07:24: You started seeing some depth in it, not just a bunch of stories like Greek myths or something like that.
Joel Weiner 07:31: Correct. Now again, jumping way ahead. We were always a member of a synagogue and we moved to New York. We were living in Chicago, we lived in New York. A lot of it was doing belonging and doing things because of the kids. A lot of parents do, and at Temple Judea, the previous rabbi he knew that I was in business and he saw something in me he essentially suggested to the other leadership the time, let’s get this guy on the board. So he recruited me. He wanted new blood on the board. So that's what happened.
Joel Weiner 08:09: And I would still say you know, that was sort of like I knew I picked up things going along and that was about the time that I read your book. I started going to Torah study, Carol, and I liked going to Torah study. I almost always still I sit next to Abigail, I totally respect her and somehow or other, I think one day I said you know, why don't you bring your husband? And she said that well, in fact I go home and we talk about it. Somewhere along the line, you know, you and I met casually, but she mentioned the book.
Joel Weiner 08:51: So she's reading this book. I said, oh interesting, and it was easy, and it was on the internet and one of the things I appreciated about the book, the chapters, I mean, they were like little essays. They were a page and a half. You know a lot of chapters, but they're short, a lot of paths, so you can read it and get an idea and then go away from it. Or you can read three or four of them, still short, and you can go away and come back and so that's why I read it, sort of like bite-sized pieces over time, and I thought it was very engaging.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin 09:25: That's what I recommend to people. I don't think it's a book to sit down and read through the way you read some books, you know in a week or something like that straight through. I think it's a book to be read in those small chapters and then you know, think about it, think about what it means and think about its relevance to you. Because it's not just, it's like not reading, we're not reading the almanac or something. We're reading stuff relevant to people's lives after all.
Joel Weiner 09:54: Right, and we'll come back and talk about the book. So to tell you about my sort of spiritual evolution, in the last year to year and a half, and partly because of my increasing responsibilities at Temple Judea, I started doing a lot of reading and a lot of talking to other rabbis and visiting other synagogues. And I have a friend since I've known from those KI days, still a friend of mine. His name is Rabbi Stephen Fink. He's in Baltimore and I've called him and asked him questions. I've met with Rabbi Strom and so forth and I've also gone to, this is more recent, but my sister belongs to a synagogue called P’nai Or, which is of the Jewish renewal, I'll call it a denomination. It's really an offshoot, it's a progressive Judaism thing, it's much smaller. It actually started in Germantown section of Philadelphia, but it's very lively. I mean it's a lot of music. It almost goes back to the Hasidic tradition, which I don't know if you know this, but the Baal Shem Tov in the Middle Ages, the rabbis were talking, it was all up in the head and the rabbis were talking to themselves and the Baal, shem Tov, was a rabbi I forget his real name, that was his nickname, that means the good name and he said it really should be something that the everyday people should experience and that started the Hasidic movement, and so the melodies that you know, which is really lively. It's like, just feel it, don't worry about what it means. Feel it. It was a way of making it for the proletariat, for the common person.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin: For everybody.
Joel Weiner 11:42: So, I was searching for ways to help Temple Judea, and so that was the kinds of things I was doing. I also started doing a lot of reading. This is after your book, but then your book was part of it. I started doing a lot of reading and talking to rabbis and I came to the conclusion that the reform movement, which is having troubles, by the way, all over the country, as are churches, as you probably know, it's really the Evangelical Christians and the Orthodox Judaism, you know they're growing, but most Christian faiths and most synagogues, they're losing members because in today's society, when everything's, you know, with the distractions, people
Dr. Jerry L. Martin: And we're basically secular, the environment is a secular environment.
Joel Weiner 12:26: Right, and so I was looking for what is the real value of Temple Judea, besides a parent or family saying send your kid to religious school, have a bar or bat mitzvah, and then they tend to drop out. I mean, some of them will stay, but it's like for people our age, like Abigail and you and I, other than maybe a tradition, maybe a sense of guilt, what is it you're really getting out of it? Now the Torah study group is something that hey, when you go there and you're talking to other intelligent people and you're sharing things, that's valuable. But I was looking for something… so my spiritual growth has grown quite a bit in the last year because, I’m oversimplifying, but it's actually good to oversimplify. The reform movement when it started remember we were talking about the Haskalah and the Enlightenment when it started, they were trying to be very rational.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin 13:25: Yes, and modern science so it was important.
Joel Weiner: Exactly, this is in the 1850, 1865 period.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin 13:33: Modern liberal values were important.
Joel Weiner 13:36: And what happened is they lost. So it's like in the head and they lost the heart. It was so rational that it lost the spirit.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin: That's a wonderful way to put it, Joel.
Joel Weiner: And so now, like Jewish Renewal, I tell you about, which started about 1960 with the hippie movement and so forth, it was a way of coming back and getting more music, and so forth. Yeah, be progressive, be liberal in your thinking, be scientific in the sense that you can't deny science, but on the other hand, try to bring back the spiritual aspects of it, and so forth. So I started seeing value in all different sorts of ways of getting at it, in fact…
Dr. Jerry L. Martin 14:08: That’s a very important lesson, Joel, for all of us, there's not just one road to truth, science or quantification or something. There are multiple roads and multiple aspects and the heart is part of that, the hard intuition, even rich stories that bring something out about life that would be hard to boil down to a set of precepts or, you know, moral rules or something, you come to understand life better from the kinds of stories told in the Torah, for example.
Joel Weiner 14:46: And well put, and that, I would say, was the theme of your book and, in fact, you talked about what was one passage, and I don't remember exactly where it was. I think it was relatively near the beginning. You're having a conversation with God, yes, and obviously your Christian background, and so forth.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin 15:04: I was raised Christian, unaffiliated after that.
Joel Weiner: I forget how the conversation kind of went, but basically you were saying well, what about Jesus? And God said yeah, well, he's a good guy, yeah, you can study him. And you said well, is he your son, Is he the prophet? And he was nodding. He said well, not necessarily, but you can study him. And what about Moses? Well, study him too. And you were like trying to get God to say…
Dr. Jerry L. Martin: Endorse one thing,
Joel Weiner: Endorse one thing, and God wouldn't do it.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin 15:38: Yeah, in a sense they're all endorsed.
Joel Weiner: Right. Exactly.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin: But in a sense, except for the claim that each religious tradition tends to make that we're the only truth. It's not just that, we're true, we're the only one, we're the whole truth. That we're the only truth, it's not just the word true, we're the only one we're the whole truth, we're the only truth, and that, the God book, things I was told in the God book constantly push against that or against an attempt to boil them all down to one little creed or set of doctrines or one idea, but you have to be open to the diversity of revelation.
Joel Weiner 16:15: Right and so, and that's what I've learned, and that's what I think, and that's what I think Judaism teaches. Now, Orthodox, I'm distinguished Orthodox, I'm going to call it reform, or let's call it progressive Judaism, because in the Torah, the Israelites are not Jews yet. The Israelites are the chosen people. God has chosen Abraham. You know, go do this, and then you know they're following their path, and so forth. Sure, and actually it's Jacob, I think, that Jacob has a fight with an angel and then wakes up with a limp, and so forth, and then he changes his name to Israel, which is one who wrestles with angels. So the Israelites were people who wrestled with God.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin 17:02: Yes, which I do, in the God book, all the time I'm arguing. Because I'll be told things that contradict my childhood upbringing, my understanding, maybe from a Christian culture, or you know I'm a professor of logic, so they just didn't seem logical, so I would object and then God would patiently try to explain. You know how my concepts, which tend to always be either/or, that that's really not adequate. Not everything is an either/or sometimes it's a both/and, but for a logician that's a challenging thought.
Joel Weiner 17:37: Right. Exactly. So here's the two lessons that I learned: how do you deal with this chosenness thing? And I've asked rabbis about it and they said well, in the Midrash, which is a story that the rabbis made up, is that God asked the Jews to do this thing and the Jews accepted it, or I should say the Israelites, but God asked everybody. God created a world. God created a world which was beautiful and spiritual and holy and had all these unbelievable miracles in it. And He was essentially saying well, this is My universe, so the Jews ran with it and eventually the Christians, which was also actually an offshoot of Judaism, Islam is an offshoot of Judaism, so the Western religions, they're going with it. So that was one lesson basically, God has put out the same message to everybody, and I never took it as literally God would say, hey, you guys are chosen. It was like it's more of a metaphor.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin 18:42: Well, yeah, my sense of what I was told in the God book is that the Jews were given a particular assignment. The covenant, the laws, are a particular assignment to partner with God in history. But the Hindus, people in India were given a different assignment. So it's the same God, it's a God-given assignment, but they had a different one that had to do with the Atman and the things familiar from Hinduism. But the Jews had an assignment and that's what chosen means. Chosen just means you've been tapped to do this job. It doesn't mean other people are chosen for other jobs. We’ve got to all fit together.
Joel Weiner 19:27: So here's the way I've come to interpret it. Basically, it comes down to the mathematician. So there's three axioms. God created the universe and everything in it. Yes, well, actually, the first thing is there's only one God. God created everything, all life, all minerals, everything. And the third part of it is that God created mankind, I'm going to say humankind, for a purpose.
Joel Weiner 19:56: Which is to perfect the world. In other words, God's essentially saying I've got this world, it's wonderful, but it's not perfect. Your job is to make it perfect. Make it better. And so the Israelites are saying, okay, that is their role. It doesn't preclude other people. Good Christians.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin: Anybody can help make the world better.
Joel Weiner 20:26: And it helped me to say listen, because I was uncomfortable as a lot of the new, more modern Jewish movement saying we're chosen and it's not an exclusive club. It's yeah, we're chosen. You're supposed to protect the world, but, but you can, but other people can be chosen in their way. Now the other lesson I got is that we all have a relationship to God a personal relationship, and that means that you don't have to go through a rabbi or a priest in government and, for example, and not wanting to get too political, but when Jeff Sessions was talking about this debacle that they had at the border with taking the mothers away from the kids, and then he made a speech and saying but this is the law and the government, government has ordained, God has ordained the government and therefore the government is right. So when I heard that, instead of just getting angry because I was just offended as a liberal because of all my training now over the last year, I said wait a minute.
Joel Weiner 21:27: First of all, taking a child away from the mother is a sacred bond that has some God. There's a God-like quality to that mother-child relationship. Hey, us men, tread lightly, don't do that, don't get in between a mother and their child. Second thing is the government is not ordained by God. Every single person has a relationship to God and the government is notnholy. The government is what we as people decide to do to help us to govern ourselves, but the government is not God. Just like I would say the pope is not God, the priests are not God, the rabbis are not God, God is not. There's one God, and there's teachers. I'm not saying I wouldn't respect all these teachers and priests and the Pope and so forth.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin 22:16: We have governments and institutions and authorities for a good reason, but they're not divine.
Joel Weiner: And if the government is not acting in accordance with God's rules, which are pretty simple. If God created everything, then we have to kind of respect everything. We have to respect that God, everybody, every person reflects the light of God.
Joel Weiner 23:31: Now here's where you get to some interesting problems which I haven't really talked about with Abigail or other people, and they become good philosophical problems. The world was created by God and it is our duty, it is our obligation to preserve the beauty of the world. We can't wreck it. So that brings up ecology. But so we are using oil and we are hurting the environment. And it doesn't mean that we would, I'm not saying we have to go back to a totally agrarian economy and we can't use any oil and we can't drive cars. First of all, it would be impractical and it wouldn't happen. But now you end up with now, as a society, smart people can get together and say okay, how do we live in accordance with God's creation and at the same time there is a modern economy
Dr. Jerry L. Martin: That does many other good things. Medical services and high technology solutions to problems.
Joel Weiner 24:39: And how do we harness our technology, and technology is a gift from God. The fact that we have a brain that can invent a technology and we say, well, wait a minute. That's a gift from God. The fact that you and I are both very intelligent people having this conversation.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin 24:54: And we're using this technology that someone thought up.
Joel Weiner 25:00: This is a modern miracle, what we're doing right now, and the fact that we have the gift to talk about these concepts. So it also means that we have a divine obligation to essentially say how do we make the technology work to make the world perfect or more perfect? And that I've learned only in the last year. But it's also something I think we can teach our kids. And so what I'm trying to do at Temple Judea I'm still really relatively alone in this. We've changed the website. We're talking about enlightened Judaism, some of which I told you. We're saying it's a reset on reform and so forth, but people still don't quite get what I'm talking about because it's….
Dr. Jerry L. Martin: Well, you're pushing the envelope, right.
Joel Weiner: Well, it's simple, but it's different. It's like we can be modern and we can be Godlike at the same time.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin 25:57: Sure. As you know, toward the end of God: An Autobiography, I'm told to start a project, a theological project called Theology Without Walls, and the kind of lead quote from God in that chapter, in that section, is that you stand on the threshold of a new spiritual era, a new axial age. The first axial age is when all the religions as we know, or most of them you know, were formed, the initial round of revelations from God to mankind across the cultures. Where we stand on a new, on the threshold of a new axial age, I'm told and part of that was starting to think about theology in a broader way that God is bigger than our religions. God is manifest through our religions but no one religion captures the whole of the divine. And someone told me that you were talking about a temple without walls. Is that right or is that a misquote?
Joel Weiner 27:01: No, it's exactly right. I think we have to reach out to the community. I mean, I think it's dead on. Right. We have to reach out to the community, Christians and Jews and Muslims and so forth, and we have to also get Jews, who are not comfortable with institutions, to somehow identify, because the basic teachings which we just talked about, there's one God. God created everything and we have a purpose to make the world better.
Joel Weiner 27:30: If that's your religion, if your religion believes in that and my religion believes in that, then we have a lot more in common. In fact, all the important things we have in common. All the other stuff are trappings, yeah, and religion which is created by the rabbis or the priests is not the same thing as spirituality, and we get so hung up on the trappings of religion that we're losing the essence of what these religions are. And that's why this is so important, because if we get back to basics, then we will cause bridges. I've had arguments with a brother-in-law who grew up Greek Orthodox, but he was saying religion gets people in trouble. There's been wars and so forth, which, of course, is true. Because religion separates people. But that's the trappings of religion. That's the institutions of religion. Not the theology, really. The theology is, they are so much alike.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin 28:33: That's where you think up above, at a higher level, about your religion and about other religions, so you're not just… a lot of those wars attributed to religion are really cultural, because people tend to identify their culture often with God. So you're an Irish Catholic. You can't tell your Irishness from your Catholicism often, and so you have these conflicts. But there is a point of view one can take, and part of it is you learn your own tradition, the tradition you're closest to, you grew up in or that you're drawn to, but you learn what you can about others and you don't regard them as excluding one another, as if you learn from one tradition, that prevents you from learning anything from the others exactly.
Joel Weiner 29:27: And tradition, tradition is beautiful. So I'm not saying throw a tradition at all. Tradition is beautiful because it reminds us of what the theology is really all about. On the other hand, if you want to hold a cross and I'm going to hold a mezuzah or a Torah, so what. That's what? Your father told you to do or your mother told you to do.
Joel Weiner 29:55: The reason I'm Jewish is really because my parents were Jewish.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin: That's almost the definition. There are conquerors.
Joel Weiner: Maybe you marry somebody and say I'll do that, but that's very rare. But now what I've come to realize is see, I'm now comfortable saying I'm Jewish, I'm proud of it, I now believe in God, whereas that teenager who was an atheist I said well, he didn't understand what God was all about because he got mixed up in the trappings of religion. And the Bible miracle stories, which were never really explained properly, as examples or metaphors. or even if they were true. A good example is this is one I heard from another rabbi and I think this is great. We know Noah's Ark and as kids we drew pictures of Noah's Ark and we might have made a model and put animals in it.
Joel Weiner 30:58: That's as far as it went, and I heard debates on YouTube between a scientist and a theologian arguing whether the ark really existed and it's really almost a not relevant argument, because now, here's what the rabbi said, here's what the story is all about: all of life was in a vessel sailing on the sea, aren't we all on the earth basically sailing through space? That's a metaphor for basically all of life is, in this, really finite.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin 31:36: Finite and fragile, vulnerable.
Joel Weiner: Fragile, vulnerable. And we're sailing through space, which is vast compared to our little earth, and we better take care of our earth. And I said you know that's a beautiful way of understanding it and that you can teach the kids. That was not how I was taught. I was the bible story and it was the miracle period. And so, instead of it being simply hey, and kids will understand ecology and why you have to recycle or do whatever.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin 32:09: Yes, and so with all of the religious, the stories, the verses, the commandments, you really have to ask what do they mean? And not dismiss them too readily, because if you dismiss them too readily you'll never find what do they mean. You have to kind of ponder them, assume there's some meaning there, because to some extent there's a kind of almost evolutionary principle. If something survives, it must be viable. So it's come down several thousand years. It's got something going for it. Must stuff has not survived that long. The Torah for example, has.
Joel Weiner 32:43: Judaism is 3500 years old. It's one of the oldest religions on the earth.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin 32:50: Yes, so you always assume it has the best attitude, even if you don't understand it at the beginning, or it looks silly, is to think this has something to teach me. I'm going to find out why. I'm going to study it until I discover why and I know. This is quoted early in God: An Autobiography when I was directed to go read the scriptures of the kind of foundational scriptures of world religions, and I was given a little instruction about how to read them, and I was told it's not analyzing them, it's not, you know, chopping them into pieces and figuring out how do these pieces go together or what do they match up with in terms of my general understanding. No, it was to read them and just see this is back to your spiritual. Just see what comes through to you. In other words, just let it speak to you on whatever level intellectual, emotional, spiritual, whatever practical. Let it speak to you and let that come in without a lot of karate chopping of the text up front that prevents that meaning from coming through. Well, that's a very fine place to conclude, Joel, and I appreciate you and, as you know, I've much admired the leadership you and others have given to the temple.
Joel Weiner 34:14: Well, thank you, it's a pleasure. And this work that you're doing, this is important for the reasons we talked about.
Dr. Jerry L. Martin: Thank you.
Scott Langdon 34:35: Thank you for listening to God: An Autobiography, The Podcast. Subscribe for free today wherever you listen to your podcasts and hear a new episode every week. You can hear the complete dramatic adaptation of God: An Autobiography, As Told To A Philosopher by Jerry L. Martin by beginning with episode one of our podcast and listening through its conclusion with Episode 44. You can read the original true story in the book from which this podcast is adapted, God: An Autobiography, As Told to a Philosopher, available now at amazon.com, and always at Godanautobiography.com. Pick up your own copy today. If you have any questions about this or any other episode, please email us at questions@Godanautobiography.com, and experience the world from God's perspective as it was told to a philosopher. This is Scott Langdon. I'll see you next time.